Chinese research is often best to be skeptical of and, particularly, when the government is writing a book about how great they did while seeming to suppress the real death counts in the country.
One might also note that they also tested other drugs in a number of trials. How did those ones do? Better or worse? My gaping wound is doing better since I licked it but how is the guy who got stitches and a bandage?
I might be spoiling the joke, but…
“Conspiracy theorist Alan Krumwiede posts videos about the virus on his blog. In one video, he claims he has cured himself of the virus using a homeopathic cure derived from forsythia. People seeking forsythia overwhelm pharmacies. During a television interview, Krumwiede discloses that Cheever secretly informed friends and family to leave Chicago before it was quarantined. Cheever is informed he will be investigated. Krumwiede, having faked his illness to boost sales of forsythia, is arrested for conspiracy and securities fraud”
I saw the link in post #138 and I did not find it as persuasive as you did. Most of the hard data in that link involved in vitro activity. I have never denied that this drug has strong in vitro effects against most viruses.
There was no data given behind the 100 person study, simply the results given at a press briefing held by the Chinese government. That is still not a large study and without the actual data I can’t review it.
My concern with most of these studies is the methodology of selection between the control group and active group. If they are not using a blind method, it is quite possible that they are selecting patients that they subjectively think have a better chance of survival to receive the drug. It’s a problem when you are running these tests in battlefield situations and you want to as many patients as possible to live. I actually don’t disagree with that practice in this situation but if it’s happening it will affect the results.
I will admit that the idea that works by suppressing an autoimmune reaction that is worsening the pneumonia may have some merit. The questions that immediately come to mind are:
Has this drug been tested against pneumonia not caused by COVID? Like pneumonia caused by flu? Is there any reason to believe that the pneumonia caused by COVID is any different than other pneumonia? Is there something about COVID that makes it more likely than other viral conditions to set off an autoimmune reaction?
I’m also seeing loads of contradictions in these early studies. The Chinese claimed effectiveness from the drug alone in the study you posted. But the doctor in the YouTube video Peebles posted said the drug was ineffective unless zinc was added. And the doctor in the French study claimed it wasn’t effective unless he added the Z-Pack.
And I have no idea why all these doctors are taking it proactively without evidence. I must’ve missed your cite claiming all these doctors are taking it proactively.
But that is the real danger here. While the studies proving that these drugs work on sick patients is still thin and anecdotal, they do exist. And once someone is infected, “What have you got to lose?” is a powerful argument.
But I have seen nothing real backing the claim that these drugs have a preventative action and many of the theoretical mechanisms of action- such as that it lessens symptoms by acting as an anti-inflammatory - don’t translate to its use as a prophylactic.
If people think they can pop a pill and go back to work - that is a dangerous idea. And it’s also the ulterior motive behind the right wing promotion of these drugs.
Carry on.
You are correct to point out that Trump’s minuscule stake in chloroquinine is probably not the main show here.
Trump is a narcissist. He operates only on 2 goals in life, which are seeking admiration and avoiding shame. His main 2 strategies in service of this goal are claiming credit for anything good, whether he was involved or not, and denigrating his opponents, whether they deserve it or not. Naturally, all aspects of this involve weaving an elaborate smokescreen of bullshit.
Trump is pushing chloroquinine because he thinks it will get him credit for figuring out a cure before the scientists, who are his rivals. This process involves a lot of lying and bullshit. People who shouldn’t take this drug have and will continue to harm themselves by taking it. People have actually died from following Trump’s medical advice.
The general public will be confused as to whether the eventual eradication of COVID was due to the diligence of epidemiologists, physicians, and first responders, or via Trump finding a miracle cure in spite of all the eggheads who said he couldn’t.
There is money at stake here, but none of this is about the money. It’s all about buffing Trump’s image. When you understand this simple truth, a lot of seemingly complicated pieces fall into their obvious places.
I remember Chloroquine (and Primaquine) being important to the plot of this MAS*H episode. IANAD but they’re related to hydroxychloroquine, right?
The military should be in a position to offer some data and/or make some judgments—I seem to remember reading someone saying that the meds aren’t well tolerated by those who serve in theaters where they may be needed.
It’s my understanding that the less severe side effects are very common but I can’t seem to find numbers. Oh well.
Adamant disrespectful n frankly stupid democrats are to blame I don’t like Trump but Trump winning with a landslide this time.
You mean like the complete lack of respect you show for punctuation and stupid grammar?
Not really
Peter Hadfield, British science journalist and author, reports on how Trump misled Americans, not only on the response to the virus, but also on Hydroxychloroquine.The point BTW is not about politics, but it is a problem when governments don’t understand or disregard scientific advice, because that has consequences.
USA was damaged by virus after Europe and Iran so you have to blame all the leaders of Europe also
Whether or not hcq works, Trump deserves praise for letting it known across patients and doctors as a option. Democrats are totally dishonest and hateful towards that and people are watching it…
I am telling you if this attitude continues then Trump is going to win by a landslide
You do realize he did not think of it himself, right?
Yep. To him, THAT is the “win”. That he can claim he stood there and harangued the nerds to “don’t give me your whiny loser excuses, find a solution that works, nerds, I COMMAND IT WITH MY VERY LARGE LEADERSHIP!” and when someone finally rose to the ocassion and did it, it was because he commanded it with his very large leadership. And that if someone says “that was not it, it was the nerds” he can just say “you’re so nasty – next question”.
Oh, and whoever dies? Either nothing could be done about that, or they would have lived if everyone had responded to his very large leadership immediately.
There is NO EVIDENCE that it works. Do you think saying things without credentials or evidence deserves praise?
Well hanks for showing all that you did not check the cite, the comparison needs to be between Korea and the USA when they both got their first case on the same date. Korea did control it, Trump failed spectacularly. And while misery loves companionship, it does not mean that the ones suffering did the right thing.
Well another argument from ignorance, really watch the short video. Science does not care for ideology, it just so happens that right now the ones carrying the ignorant ball are Trump and his followers.
Of course he can, it does not change reality. Your points are ignorant, of course that there are a lot of ignorants right now who are voting.
Here’s a very well-laid out article in April 7 The Guardian about the studies so far and what’s wrong with them: Hydroxychloroquine: how an unproven drug became Trump’s coronavirus 'miracle cure' | Coronavirus | The Guardian
That is literally insane. Why would praise someone promoting a false cure? Because freedom?
Is that how low the bar is for you?
What if he suggested using magnets or ketchup? Would that deserve praise too?
Too bad we can’t see into the mind of a Trumpkin. It must be a fascinating and bizarre spectacle.
It’s probably been said. But of course it is unethical to prominently tout a treatment one has a financial interest in, especially without making this manifest.
Is Faux News really all that bad when it comes to carrying Trump’s water?
(7 minute video of a guy who doesn’t like Fake, excuse me, Faux News as he spotlights a Faux News segment where a credible medical professional rebukes Trumps claims, and calls those pushing them “irresponsible”.)That medical professional is more than just credible.
Compare to Dr. Oz.