You nailed it again, she sees herself as a prisoner or servant. I do everything I can to dispel that but it is ingrained in her. I see no way to overcome it. She has resentment toward anything she views as repressive. I opened up the flood gates here by encouraging her to speak her mind and give her opinions on things and now I wish I could put the cat back into the bag.
My first was 20 years and we got divorced, both of us regretted the divorce for many years but always remained close friends. My second was 25 years and she died abut 6 years ago. The biggest issue against me is not control, I just tend to spend too much time on my hobbies.
Depends on how she reacts to it. Note that it wasn’t her giving you advice or even continuing to give you advice. It was the getting mad part. And even then, it’s not a given. Just an indicator that she might need to look at why it makes her mad.
If you don’t feel pressure from her to take her advice, then she’s not being abusive.
The other day during this whole mess. I caught a weird expression from her. I was almost like she was smirking that she was able to baffle me acting dumb. That is a form of gas lighting. I am pretty sure she is taking some enjoyment in screwing with me. Once I figured this out all the dynamics have changed. She is going to see a new me from now on. I have to go pick her up in a few minutes and she will be here till Friday. I have a feeling we will iron it out but I am not going to be as compromising as I have been in the past.
This honestly seems like a very controlling process and not enjoyable for a good chunk of people trying to learn something new. Given what you’ve said about her past, she’s probably chomping at the bit thinking she got to explore something new and gain her own autonomy, and you’re just swatting her down over and over.
This does not sound like a healthy dynamic at all, in any way, for either of you. And if your idea of compromising is going through an exhaustive and rigid iterative process every time you teach her something new, you are not being compromising.
And I think LSLGuy hit the nail on the head in multiple ways in his last post, and gave some really important points to think about.
I’m with you on cooking standards. In fact I distinguish between “good cooks” and “people who know how to follow a recipe.” The latter group may be able to produce perfectly adequate meals, but they are not really cooks, just rote learners. A cook experiments, makes mistakes, learns what can be adapted, and isn’t rigidly bound by what the cookbook says.
Are we talking about cooks or bakers? Cooking is art; baking is science.
Agree on both points.
I’m a cook by feel and experiment kinda Guy. But I bake almost exactly by recipe lest I produce doorstops or glop.
That fundamental distinction may not be in the OP’s GF’s experience. And if she can’t learn it on her own, and won’t learn it from the OP, I predict her baking will not improve with time.
What the OP does about a steady stream of failed baking projects is up to him. And indirectly, her.
Baking is art and science. As is cooking, although it is true that there tends to be more flexibility in technique and ingredient substitution in cooking rather than in baking.
But I treat baking as an art (or perhaps “craft” is a better word). I’ll substitute sesame seeds for chia, vary the size and shapes of pans I use, try different types of flour, and so on.
In fact, when I use sourdough starter to make bread, I don’t even consult a recipe, much less follow it to the letter. I know I need starter, flour that contains gluten, and liquid, and I’ll have to knead, proof and bake. The rest is entirely based on the resources I happen to have on hand and what kind of result I feel like producing.
My sister grew up to be an excellent baker. She can tell you how to vary your cookie recipe if you want the cookies softer, or crisper, or fluffier or denser, and how to adjust for different humidity.
You can learn a lot by trial and error, especially when even your errors are delicious.
Anyway, this story is not about the cookies, or about the banana bread. It’s about the dynamic between two mature adults. To me, telling another adult who is cooking, “no, you are doing that wrong”, is generally problematic. There are exceptions, like in a commercial kitchen, or when someone is about to do something really dangerous (“oops, that cream has been in the fridge for two months, don’t use it!” ) But when someone is just modifying a recipe? That’s really weird to me.
And maybe she likes the modifications she makes. My chicken with ginger and scallions has drifted over the years. I still look at the original recipe, but i think, “i want more ginger”, and, “don’t forget to defrost some chicken broth even though it isn’t in the recipe.” My daughter likes mine more than what’s in the book, and has started making it. Only she makes yet more modifications, like adding garlic. I don’t because i prefer it without the garlic. But she likes it more with the garlic, and the cook gets to choose.
Even if your partner prefers the version you make, and would prefer crispy cookies to the muffins she produced, the scenario you described sounds very controlling and unpleasant. If the unexpected muffins are a problem for you, maybe you should request she sticks with stews and soups and salads and stir fries, where the recipe is totally flexible, and any set of ingredients you like will " work right", at least when she’s cooking for both of you. But if she wants to try baking cookies for her friends, you know what, she’s a grown up. She can do that.
Nice summary, and excellent job of bringing a hijack back to the topic at hand! (I was feeling bad about getting away from the topic of the thread.)
Experimenting is great and I would encourage it if there was some objective attached to it besides. " more eggs is always good" or “why mix this separately I can just mix it all together and get the same result” She has zero background and did request that I teach her. Baking is not like cooking. You do have some room to be creative only if you have some understanding of the process. On wed we are going to do a coconut cream pie. I wonder how that will go.
She might as well be married to a drill sergeant.
OK, that’s issue right there: you are completely oblivious.
YES, and the OP will never see that, sadly.
the same - because you can’t let go of the control. seriously, do something else “together” and leave her alone in the kitchen. or bake your own stuff, your way when she is doing something else. “we” are not doing anything, you are running the show and she is dealing with it the best she can because of the power imbalance between you.
I think the point a lot of you are missing is that she asked me to teach her how to bake. The first one always goes fine, she pays close attention and no problems. Now the next one she does she wants to do on her own which is also fine but she needs a few pointers. This is where we have the problem. I think it is silly to spend months getting something down when it only needs a simple suggestion. Another example I can think of that went on for about 4 pies before I stepped in. I like to precook my apples when I make an apple pie. Inly do this so I can get rid of some of the liquid and fit more apples into my pie. So I steam them for about 3 or 4 minutes. She would add the cinnamon and sugar before steaming so all the ingredients would wind up in the water that gets thrown out. She would also cook them way to long, maybe 15 minutes. These are two easy corrections. It was like pulling teeth trying to get her to make a little correction. Now the pies come out beautiful and she is happy and proud of her pies. It is the same with every thing just a couple of small corrections are needed butshe doesn’t want to hear it.
I reads to me like the OP is going into these looking for a conflict.
Not a big surprise when one happens.
she is not the problem. seriously.
IMO this thread is mostly over. The crowd is piling on and the OP is turning a deaf ear. Meanwhile a lot of the responses are simply breaking down along the usual gender = team lines.
Y’all do as you will but I’m going to bow out from witnessing the upcoming train wreck. Cheers!
There is a big difference between controlling and tolerating willful ignorance. I was a shop foreman in diesel truck repair shops my entire life. I have found about 10% of the guys can go from almost no experience to journey men level in less than 2 years, about 50% take 4 or 5 years and the remaining 40% never get past a b level but they are ok at what they do. Every once in a while, you run across a character who will not take direction and has an excuse for everything. They always end up getting fired or never advance even though you know they have the potential to be in the top 10%. They will continue bad behaviors just to justify past bad behaviors. It is an endless cycle there seems to be no cure for. I think this is what I am dealing with here.
Thank You for your input, you did an excellent job of identifying the issues involved without taking sides. I admired the objectivity you displayed
Right there.
She asked you to teach her how and then wants to experiment from there. Let her. Some people just want a surface level intro to a hobby and then see where it takes them. She doesn’t need to feel like she’s in culinary school when she just wants to be able to bake a cake.
So what if it takes her a month to figure out what you can tell her in a minute. That’s not how she wants to learn and for some reason you’ve decided that your way is the right way, period, end of story.
And you have to remember that she’s your significant other, not your employee. You need to look at this, not as training her so you can make money, but teaching her the basics of a hobby she thought would be interesting.
Turn this whole situation around. Imagine you wanted to learn a new hobby and asked her for some pointers. But instead of giving you some tips and pointing you in the right direction, she’s adamant you spend several hours under her watch, following her every instruction, otherwise you’re not allowed to have this hobby.
And if you have a problem with this, she’ll complain about you on the internet.