“World wide tragedy to freedom!?”
You’ve gone straight over the top, UB, and are careening downhill on the other side. This seems to be your (forgive the phrase) pet cause but you’ve lost any sense of proportion over it.
What matter? That someone has some resources to help?
Because they care about animals? I don’t normally hate anyone.
I think you’re bitching about PETA and there ilk here.
Listen up bud. This is not about PETA. It’s about helping those that need help. PF’s husband is helping those that he can. People first, and then saving some animals that many of us love.
I’m still stunned, that in the face of such tragedy, that you would dare to slam PF in the MPSIMS thread. Her husband is doing a hell of a lot more than we are doing, and she was worried about him. And proud of him.
And you slam him and her. You’re quite a guy.
I never wished death on you. That is against my spiritual beliefs. You seemed so concerned about not enough resources for the needy people in NO, I just thought you might want to share some of yours.
I do not like PETA. I have no problem with rodeo or hunting. I believe medical research on animals is necessary. I eat meat, although I do my hunting at the grocery store.
I don’t believe in torturing any living thing, no matter what your cultural beliefs are. I don’t believe in cruelty to any living thing.
Thank you for taking care of the dog. If you can bring yourself to do it, please give him a scritch behind the ears for me.
Part of my concern about the animal rescue efforts in NO is because it gives some ease of mind to folks who have lost everything they own to know that the animals (that they treasure) they were forced to leave behind might be saved.
Quote - *I’m sometimes asked “Why do you spend so much of your time and money talking about kindness to animals when there is so much cruelty to men?”
I answer: “I am working at the roots.” - George T. Angell, (1823-1909)*
Don’t know what else to add after reading this thread, as well as the related ones. 
I find it impossible to take seriously the opinions of a person who is espousing the exclusive sanctity of human life while simultaneously expressing rabid hatred toward a large portion of the human race.
UB, You’ve made some half-assed very insincere attempts at apologizing for dumping in an MPSIMS thread. The apology I’m waiting for is for the extremely ugly things you said about people simply for the reason that they don’t expressly agree with you. You continued to spew venom even when people explained that they do agree with you, but that they don’t see the situation as an either/or thing.
I’ll reiterate a few of the things you’ve said about me and a lot of other very nice Dopers: vile, disgusting, evil, too fucking stupid to realize the truth, devoid of compassion toward your fellow man. Those are pretty harsh words aimed at people who are trying to lessen the suffering caused by a disaster, even if their methods are not what yours would be.
How much credence do you think you have left here after the things you’ve said?
Oh, to fie with “suppose if scenarios”. Please tell me how would I be walking with a dog with a broken leg? If it is a big dog, then I can’t carry it. If it is a small dog, then I can. I will try to carry them both, thanks, but I never would want to make someone (or some creature) with a broken leg travel. I am not the first aid pro here - wouldn’t want to risk injuring them even more.
You have keep on asserting this line of thought; many people here have responsed why. You just say you can’t get it. Then get over it. Some people are just cannot see another person’s point of view.
People have their pet peeves. And showing too much care to animals is one of them. What about zoos? Why shall we still keep zoos? Why shall we still try to prevent animals from going extinct? What about nature preserves? Isn’t it more efficient to raze all those grasslands and turn them into something more productive, like factories and such. They all benefits the human race!
You are omitting some important facts here. It depends on the situation. Your “one brush stroke seals all” technique is getting whinny, repetitive and grating on the ear, like fingernails on the blackboard. People are saying “I rather save an animal than UB’s ass any day” because UB is being such an ass. I won’t be surprised if they are joking.
For Holy Jumping Cows’ sake, no one is saying we shall save animals to the exclusion to men! True compassion is not limited to one creed, one race or one nation. That’s not true compassion. Jesus did say what good is there in loving your brothers? Everyone do that too. Murderers, cheaters and your average Joe.
The things that matter is “love your enemies”. Jesus like to pose thing in extreme ways to get points across, but I believe the point is – if you only want to show compassion to just one specific group at the exlcusion of others, because of “they don’t deserve it”. Then maybe you are not as noble as you are.
Disclaimer: No one can be totally compassionate. Just to go how tough it is going to be a good guy.
So you rather save Osama than Fluffy? Osama bin Laden, you know, the Great Terrorist Leader, in case you haven’t heard the news. (Of course, one may want to save Osama bin Laden instead, considering the award that the government is giving out…)
Oh, get off your soapbox already.
It’s hope-breaking when we human beings can’t care for those who can’t even express their distress, can’t save themselves and have to depend on us for their surivival, but we don’t even care.
You’re comparing someone being unable to get needed medications with someone losing their little puppy wuppy? And I’m the one who’s being irrational? :rolleyes: back at ya.
Then again, my stance is that there are two basic groups which comprise the “mentally ill.” There are people with real, life-threatening diseases who need the help of trained medical professionals, and whiny losers who bitch about everything and “need” someone to play therapist with them. The former group’s problems count as “severe psychiatric emergencies;” the latter group’s problems are selfish whining. Someone who can’t get lithium and needs it to be airlifted to them and have someone talk them down while they wait? Former group, someone to be helped. Someone who would cry over a dog while other people suffer? Definitely in the latter group, and thus a person who should not be taken into consideration. But this really has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
I am going to bare my soul here .
I am one of those people who sincerely likes animals more than 95% of the human population. All my life , I have been at the bottom of the pecking order, ridiculed , made fun of or ignored. My attempts to make friends have largely failed. I can count my REAL friends on 1 hand , and only ONE of them actually lives in the same city I do, the others scattered off across the country.
I have no family. No siblings, parents dead , aunts , uncles , all dead. Cousins have either moved away or we have nothing in common.
All my life , my best friends have been my pets. My dogs, my horses, my cats. The accept me for who I am. They do not judge. They love me unquestioningly . They have been my shoulder to cry on , they make me laugh , they protect me. In return , I care for them , give them good food , and love them in return.
I am not a supported of PETA in any way. I think they are crackpots. I enjoy rodeos, I have no problem with hunting or fishing. I understand that not all dogs and cats are adoptable and that shelters will always have to euthanize some .
What does this have to do with anything?
I am just saying that if I was faced with saving one of my dogs or some faceless stranger , I’m sorry. My dog would be saved. I have recieved very, very little compassion from anyone in my lifetime. Most of the love I have been gifted with has come from my pets. And if that makes me a bad person , so be it.
All I know is my heart lies with those who have given me care and love in the past. And that hasn’t been the human race.
Nope. In previous threads, people refered to strangers, not to UBL. They weren’t joking, either, and defended their point of view.
Yes.
I maintain that there’s room for reasonable discussion. While miller and clairobscur have radically different viewpoints from my own when it comes to the matter of our ethical obligation toward nonhuman animals, I can have a respectful discussion with them on the matter. I can similarly have a respectful discussion with other board members on the matter. If someone who advocated an animal rights position (e.g., outlawing the eating of meat) came on the boards and argued their position with the same attitudes that miller argued his, I could similarly have a respectful disagreement with them.
But if they came onto the boards spouting a position with the equal parts vitriol and ignorance that Bull spouts his position, I’d be unable to talk with him rationally, either. I’d pit him, too.
I’m all about the saving of the animals. I’m all about ending any sport in which animals are harried, poked, prodded, or otherwise harrassed. I’m all about ending trophy hunting, cosmetic testing on animals, and cosmetic surgery on animals. And I recognize that I’m a small minority in most of these views, and I can live with that, and I can have decent conversations with people who earn their money by setting dogs on fire and studying how the burns kill them.
But if someone is too foolish to accept a nuanced version of the world, too dumb to have a respectful conversation, then I’m not going to try.
Daniel
No, that wasn’t what I was comparing. I was disputing that people will need psychiatric help in addition to being plucked out of the water.
Bolding mine.
No shit?
You continue to miss the point.
If he was a specialist dealing with psychological trauma, would he be more useful in the refuge camps, or a John Boat?
No answer so far… What do you think? Refuge camp or John Boat?
PF’s husband is taking supplies down, and can bring animals back. That’s what he can do to help.
Well?.. Is that OK? Or would you feel better if the bus came back empty.
Assholes.
I have been wondering whether we could get a list of supplies that pinkfreud’s husband is taking down. Is everything he’s taking down either food or medicine, or is he also taking down some clean underwear for the refugees? Because people can get by without clean underwear, and if that’s what he’s taking down, shame on him!
But let’s say that he’s taking down a shipment of food. Is the food all meats and vegetables, or are there some snack foods like cookies in there? Because if there are any cookies, he’s wasting resources by taking junk food down, and shame on him!
BUt let’s say that he’s taking down only meat and vegetables. Is he taking down quality vegetables, or is he taking down vegetables like potatoes, which have few nutrients? Because if he’s taking down less valuable vegetables, he’s not doing what he could be doing to help people, and shame on him!
We could go on and on.
Daniel
Yes, and I was saying that saving animals to better some humans’ mental health is not a psychiatric emergency, and thus not a medical emergency, and thus not something we should be focusing on at this point of the disaster. It was in reference to this post (#167):
And YES, enipla, I said TWO PAGES BACK that if he truly could not bring humans back and was not impeding human rescue efforts in any way, then he’s doing a nice thing (though not, as Shodan said, a wonderful thing), and should be lauded for that.
And you wonder why you receive no compassion from human beings, why you have no friends? No, I bet you just cry into your dog’s fur at night.
This is starting to remind me of that one time some guy came here and was bitching about Toys for Tots, because they waste money giving TOYS to poor kids, instead of food.
Fuck that shit. You know, if I were super rich, you know what I’d do? EVERY kid, 12 and under, who were victims of this disaster would each receive a $50 gift certificate to Build-A-Bear.
Let me just get this straight - you are seriously saying that survivors who grieve over the loss of their pets are selfish whiny losers who should not be taken into consideration?
(fixed coding–Veb)
(would be grateful for a coding fix)
clair, this is still sinking in for many people. It’s not easy to fully comprehend the scope of this tragedy, along with the possibility/certainty (that’s still being debated as well) that New Orleans is over, finished, no going back.
I should have said this hours ago when I read your post, because it’s what I thought then: It’s like in H2G2, if you’ve read or are familiar with that. When they’re on the Vogon ship and Arthur is trying to wrap his mind around the fact that Earth has been vaporized. Not there any more. Nada. First he thinks of Nelson’s Column, and that has no impact. Then something else, I forget what, then he thinks of movies he’ll never see again, and gets a “nasty jolt”, and moves on to the fact that “there is no longer any such thing as a McDonald’s hamburger.”
It’s hard as hell to grasp the big picture, when the picture is this big. And when some of the ideas, such as dead bodies floating in contaminated water, are so horrific. Individual losses like Snowball are the small concepts that, once absorbed, make it possible to accept the large ones.
At this point in the disaster, when people are still stuck in their attics, up to their eardrums in filthy, cholera-infested swamp water, while roving gangs of “looters” and “finders” ransack their possessions and fight it out with the nominal police, Mad Max style?
Yes.