[HS]In your face Flanders! USA! USA! USA![/HS]
What is wrong with people? I hope you teach your kids after a game to shake hands with their opponents, not try to rub their noses in it. There’s nothing wrong with a victory lap with your nation’s flag, but the athletes most people around the world respect are those that are gracious in victory, preceding or following their victory lap with hugging or shaking hands with their esteemed competitors. You might be surprised how far small respectful gestures go. Victory can be relished without swaggering braggadocio. Not every athlete has the touch of Muhammad Ali. He could pull it off (tho even he was reviled for this behaviour in some circles). Most that try just come off looking like boastful jerks.
Yes, I’d say that’s objectionable. But I’m offended…no, embarrassed!! when boxers, football players, and baseball crybabies thank god for their wins, too. How fucking pathetic! I’d give them a slight pass because it’s not an international event, but they’re still fucking obnoxious.
Hear, hear!
Could Oscar, Grammy etc winners stop thanking god too. IF there is a god I am sure he is far to busy doing whatever it is god does to have any time up his sleeve just to help someone win an Oscar. Please don’t thank him when you win. It makes some of us feel ill.
It’s not as if the IOC has been telling US athletes to tone it down - it’s the US Olympic committee, right ?
As far as I can tell, it’s nothing but a reminder to the athletes that they’re representing their country in front of an international audience, not a US one. What looks like an exuberant victory celebration to an American audience is not necessarily the universal norm, and athletes might want to take that into consideration so as not to look like bad sportsmen. Call it decorum or tact, if you like. The Olympic Games are supposed to be about good sportsmanship, no ?
The medal awards ceremony is supposed to honor the athletes and their country in a somewhat dignified and - dare I say it - restrained manner. You may like that or not, but that’s the friggin’ Olympic tradition. I honestly can’t see that it’s too much to ask that athletes - from any country - show a tad of respect for the traditions and wishes of the institution that make their names shine.
Salute the flag as it’s raised in the place of honour, stand tall as your anthem is being played, wear those medals proudly.
Then do the flag-waving hokey-pokey on your own time.
If we’re talking about athletes on the sidelines waving flags when their teammates win medals, then I think that’s in poor taste and no athletes should do it. I mean, the winning country gets to see its flag hung on high, and their anthem played while the winner stands on the podium; what more do we need? But I think that rule should apply to everybody across the board.
I think it is generally understood across the board. But remember…no one does “obnoxious asshole” like American sportsmen.
Horses ride a victory lap.
Racecars drive a victory lap.
Hell, even the Little League team that wins the LL World Series runs the bases. A few years ago a local team won the US Championship, but lost the international to Japan. (This was the LL series with the scandal of an overage player, remember?)
Anyway, the Japanese team ran around the bases and ended up bowing repeatedly before the statue of someone at the back of the stadium. They also invited the US team to run with them around the bases.
I say Team USA should be allowed to run a victory lap.
It’s not about olympic pride. It’s about our precarious place in the world right now. It doesn’t matter what Japan does. It doesn’t matter what Little League does. What really matters is what the US does in relation to our reputation as big, bullying, torturing assholes. We don’t need to add “cocky” to the list, thankyouverymuch. We don’t need to give everyone the “in-your-face” version of who we are.
Browsing the article you’re raving about I see nothing that says our athletes aren’t allowed to take a victory lap. It says :
So we aren’t allowed to use our flag to taunt others or rub their noses in our victory with the flag. Highly acceptable, understandable, and I applaud it. In a world where we’re considered the bad guys, it would be nice, as I’ve already mentioned, if our non-political representatives would act with a little decorum.
Acting like our track members did last time round would be in the poorest taste ever.
Shodan- I agree wholeheartedly with Kalhoun. It’s just as tasteless when an Iranian does it or an American does it. Neither God, nor their country of origin propelled them to the winner’s circle and I tire of hearing it at every sporting event.
Sam
Over and above what we’re already doing, that is.
Unfortunately, “Cocky”, and “Arrogant capitalist pig” were added to the list years ago.
Sam
TDN asked:
Do you or do you not care what other nations think of us?
I do not.
Should American athletes act with shame, or with dignified pride, or with obnoxious in-your-face pride? Or in another way?
They should act out whatever they feel, so long as it is legal. It is, after all, their victory.
Are athletes representatives of their countries, regardless of whether they are policy makers or not?
Not to me, they’re not, but I do recognize that others may see it differently.
My way of thinking, as a liberal, is that the essential issue here is freedom of expression, and that that very freedom is what ought to be shown to the world. Let them envy it or let them hate it. But let them always know that we ourselves value it, and that we recognize their freedom to express how they feel about us as well. People don’t want America to be a pussy. People want America to be a bastion of freedom.
There should be a sarcasm font, to clear up the occasional confusion. I didn’t read the last line of This Year’s Model’s post, which inspired my sarcastic post. I ain’t got no love for der Fuhrer. Remember, I am the one that thinks he was a leftist. (Now, the uniforms I may have a bit of love for, but that is a apolitical matter.)
Yeah, but who cares what people want America to be?
Honestly, if you don’t care about America’s reputation, then you won’t mind if some of us strive for a good reputation, do you?
Certainly not. Are you one of the athletes? Just in case you didn’t know what I meant by “freedom of expression”, I mind only if you impose on others how they must express themselves. Strive all you wish, but don’t presume that your whim constitutes the obligation of someone else.
But Lib, since the US public acts as a patron for many of these athletes then they should have every right to request a certain degree of decorum (or excess), shouldn’t they?
Certainly I don’t want to curtail the freedoms of others, but there are limits to free speech – shouting “movie” in a crowded firehouse, for example. If the US Olympic Committee wants to curtail the free speech of the athletes, that is their right. Same as if the company you work for wants to curtail your right to use sexually explicit language in the workplace.
Even if you think that the athletes have a legal right to make asses out of themselves and their country, would you agree that it still may not be desirable for them to do so?
I saw a great interview with George Forman who won the Gold for Boxing when he was a young man. He got a lot of flack from other black athletes for waving a little American flag… the ones who wore a black glove and made a fist on the podium. When asked about it, he pointed out that before he joined the job corps (an American government run institution) he was an uneducated thief. In the job corps they gave him an education, a work ethic, and 3 meals a day. It was there that he started an interest in sports and met the people that would lead him to the world of boxing. When he won the gold medal, he said he put up the flag because he wanted the world to know what country made it possible for a man like him to be where he was. This isn’t arrogance, this isn’t pomp. This was appreciation.
To all of the posters that keep saying that all athletes are arrogant and obnoxious by nature, I say fuck you. The attitude you express is by far more obnoxious than any of the world-class athletes I have known. And I have known a lot. You sit back, having obviously never competed in any type of sport that forces you to dig deep within yourself to find a strength that can NEVER be described to someone who never did it, and judge people you don’t know anything about.
Most of the defenders of the new policy seem to think that a victory lap with your flag is showy and undesirable. Just so you know, this is a long-standing track tradition that Americans, and Europeans, and Australians and Africans ALL do. It’s a track thing, not a nationality thing. It is seen as the right of the winning athlete to go once around the track. Every athlete salivates at the idea that they might be able to one day represent their country in that victory lap.
Also, somehow in this thread, the 4 morons from the last games keeps coming up as the only behavior they want curtailed. Not so.
From the article
They’re not saying simply “Don’t be a jerk.” It’s far more than that. They’re saying just stand there, let the ceremony happen, and don’t show any overt pride in your country. You wanna be happy? Fine. But make sure it looks like you’re just happy to be there, etc. Personally, I don’t know how I would be able to take a victory lap, and NOT feel like I was "slinking off the field” if, while everyone else was allowed to take their flag with them, I HAD to do it empty handed. I think it’s really easy for non-athletes to guess what the reasons are, but in short, you haven’t a clue.
I root for USA like I root for the Yankees. They’re my team, and I want them to win. And just like it would be stupid to tell the Yankees they can’t wear the symbol of their team during a world series ceremony, it’s stupid to tell an American they can’t carry the symbol of their team during a victory celebration
Yeah? Well actually they’re free to do whatever the fuck they want upon winning the all-important races. And no doubt, the obnoxious few will flex their freedom muscles and act like assholes. And I am free to cringe in my living room and wonder what the fuck happened to these morons to make them think anyone would applaud such idiotic behavior. And then I’ll turn the channel to something more meaningful, like “Everybody Loves Raymond.”
Hey Llama, I had a nice long reply all typed up until I realized you were so full of shit that I couldn’t possibly sway you one way or the other. So instead of a well thought out reply, I’m simply offering a return “fuck you”, and anteying up a “you don’t know me”.
Enjoy.
Sam