k
But I would’ve preferred the long reply. I can’t even imagine what I would be full of shit over.
And I’ll see your “you don’t know me” and raise you a " you’re a hypocrite." I’ll do this with no explaination, because I guess I can’t sway you one way or another?
Cheers
Not Sam
I’d like to know where my hypocracy lies.
Myself and others were either disgusted by certain acts of boasting, preening, and taunting at the last games we saw, or are altogether tired of public sports figures making asses of themselves in public. Add to that the fact that some of us like to see our Olympians act with some sort of grace, humility, all the while STILL being prideful of their accomplishments on the podium.
People like yourself, and Lib and a few others seem to think that’s not possible if not being able to do posedowns with their singlets barely covering their asses, wrapping themselves in the flag, and running all over hell and back with said flag. Why is there no in between?
These men and women are our representatives in the games and as such, they reflect our country. When they act badly, it gives other peoples and countries the option of saying shit like “typical American”, and “What do you expect, he’s from America?” I want these games to be different than the last. I want our people to prove to the world that we are not about all of the preconceived notions they have about us. I want them to instead of shaking their heads at our athlete’s behavior, to admire them for their accomplishments and for the game.
That’s not too much to ask, and I think putting some kind of moratorium on their more outlandish behavior is justified considering our political climate. Notice that I said “more outlandish” behavior, not “celebratory behavior”, and not “wear black clothes and walk in a funeral procession”.
Sam I Am
** sigh **
(goes off to watch Chariots of Fire)
Nuh-uh. You tell me why I’m full of shit, then I tell you where the hypocracy is.
I think that you both a.) forgot the OP and b.) didn’t read my post.
I will post my quote a second time
Please read it this time. Carefully. Nowhere does that little tidbit say that americans will be asked not to be boastful, not to psoedown, not to do the happy dance ala Perfect Strangers. IT SAYS NOT TO WAVE THE AMERICAN FLAG DURING THE CEREMONY!!! The inbetween that you and other posters have been asking for IS GOING TO BE BANNED. That’s why I contributed to this thread in the first place. There was this huge back and forth about black and white, and party or wear funeral dress. But the 2 traditions that are pretty innocuous and “in the middle” (wave a flag on the podium and do a victory lap with the flag) are the very ones mentioned in the damn OP!
Then, I went on to say that I personally would feel as if something was taken away from me if I weren’t allowed to run my country’s flag around the track just like everyone else in the whole damn world is allowed to do. And does for that matter. I mentioned the 4 x 100m relay team. I said they were morons. I also pointed out that this is hardly the only thing they’re trying to prevent.
Please, re-read my post. I put a lot of thought into it so as not to be misunderstood along these lines.
Sam was Here 5/18/04
Llama-
Yes, the article mentions not being all of the things that I mentioned, right here:
So no, I have not forgotten the OP. And no, I don’t think you put much thought into your post beyond saying “fuck you all that think this is a good idea, you obviously have never been in a competitive sport”. That pisses me off because you have NO fucking idea who has and hasn’t been in competition. And I have.
Llama dun spit here 5/18/04
Yes, the article says it. Good job. But that has a big fat ZERO to do with what we’re talking about. You were talking about finding some middle ground. I said they don’t even want middle ground. If they don’t want middle ground, then they certainly don’t want the extreme end that you talked about and was also in the article where you quoted it. When I typed
I was referring to the quote that I posted. (That’s where the word tidbit comes in) The quote you provided says it all in the last sentence
And the way it looks like they’re going to do this, is by eliminating any middle ground as far as celebratory activities. (Again, no waving the flag, no victory lap with the flag).
And if
was all you got from my post, then you are being extremely obtuse. The funny part here is that I had 2 other posters in mind when I sent out my “fuck you”, but I wasn’t going to deprive you of your right to take yours. If you were really that competitive, and you’ve known the love for a sport that much, then I really would expect you to understand what holding your flag would be about at a function like the Olympics. I actually expected that I would at the very least made the trials this year. Have you ever really imagined that you could make something like that? (I ask this not like "you couldn’t possibly have so STFU, I mean it as “I honestly want to know.”) My coach was a world record holder, and a 3:53 miler in the late '80’s. He was friends with people like Steve Scott and Eamon Coughlin. Two of his former college teammates went to the Olympics. All I was saying is, that my perspective is rather unique in that I’ve run with these types of people. I know that my 5 years at one of the best running camps in the country has introduced me to people like Anne Audain, a 6 time NZ Olympian. NONE of these people were arrogant, or boastful, or have they ever shamed themselves in front of their respective countries. They always lectured to be humble, but enjoy it when you win, because it’s your win. Don’t forget, there were earlier posts that claimed
and
These thoughts needed to be addressed. It just so happens that you were the one to respond and take it personally.
I don’t think that the majority of American Athletes are obnoxious assholes. In fact, barring the 4x100m people we have people like Michael Johnson and Lance Armstrong to represent us. And, based on that one article, it seems that we most certainly ARE going to be asked to “slink quietly off the field, prideless and humble.” If we can’t even wave a flag at the podium, or do a victory lap with the flag (how many times have I written that?) then what can we do? Seriously, the tone most certainly feels, to me, that it’s not just eliminating the assholes. It’s eliminating celebration. I hope I’m wrong on this one. I really do. I fully support a middle ground. But the point is, if middle ground was all the powers that be wanted, it seems that they would have not made any public announcements, they would have just said “hey, morons, keep it toned down or else.”
I have typed way too much. Someone tell me to shut up.
Sam was seen cleaning spit here. Really late. The end.
I think you are wrong. You can celebrate without taking an obligatory masturbatory lap with a fucking flag. The “middle ground” between a funeral and the shit our sprinters pulled last time isn’t a victory lap with a flag. Their actions were so over the top that they cannot be considered along the spectrum, IMO.
The “powers that be” want to avoid a fiasco like was discussed earlier, as well as deflecting any future issues/comments/complaints about America being a bunch of imperialistic assholes waving their flag all around. Does it matter than another country does it? no, not really. We’re talking about America, not Nigeria or Russia or Finland.
Looks like we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Yes you have. STFU. You’re welcome.
Llamajockey is still stinking the place up. Wayyyyy past his bedtime.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040515/040515_athens_relay_hmed.hmedium.jpg
I don’t know about you guys, but this kind of shit is really embarassing to me. Where the fuck is your class? Maybe they should realize that the Olympics is something a little more important than their single event?
Whatever. This is the kind of crap that really pisses people off in other countries at the worst, or at the least makes them think that we are weird. There may be some people that believe that we shouldn’t care what other countries think of us, but that’s just antisocial behavior on a global scale.
For this picture, I can understand the use of flags for the three guys in behind. Sure no other country would do that, and if they did they would probably use smaller flags. But the guy up in front is the one who takes the cake. Just what the fuck is he doing anyway?
I can help think about the Ryder Cup incident when reading this thread.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/golf/458434.stm
BTW this is a US decision not a IOC or international thing.
Nearly everyone that wins does a lap with the flag but there are levels of celebration that are just way OTT and from my experience it’s generally the US who go OTT. I’ve never been really bothered by it however but obviously some people have.
This has already been posted earlier. You people realize that not only is that one man (yes it was the one I’d still like to kick the shit out of) a complete douchbag, bit it was one man out of 300 MILLION!!! Get some fucking perspective here.
I’d add more, but I’d be banned.
Additionally, I think what they meant by “don’t wave the flag” is don’t be a fucking FLAG WAVER; they weren’t talking about people in the stands with their 12" balsawood staff with a cheap cloth flag stapled to it. There is more than one meaning to “flag waving”, and they are speaking of the extreme form of that action.
Also, I’m the one that said, “No one does obnoxious like America”, and I stand by it. I never said every American athlete was an asshole. I meant that we have the largest percentage of bad behavior incidents. I’m sure someone out there has compiled a montage of our “Oh-my-god-I-can’t-believe-he-did-that” moments. It’s not like it’s only happened once or twice. I recall Jackie Joyner or someone of her caliber practically fucking her husband/trainer on the field when she won. Lovely. Just lovely.
I also think that under the circumstances, any athlete that feels that his “win” isn’t complete without the obnoxious flag-draped victory lap; any one who feels that our national image is less important than his “Mom! I finally made it” show, should stick to professional sports and leave the good-will stuff to someone who understands world affairs and the purpose of nations meeting to compete peacefully.
I know the link was posted before, but I reposted it because I was referencing the pic and the link was on another page. I am sorry if I have broken any rules.
Yes I know it is one person out of 300 million, but they are our representatives and we should expect the people who represent our country to be more than slightly above the level of a (sp?) Terrell Owens-style touchdown celebration. Much smaller countries are well aware of this, and consider sportsmanlike conduct a very important way to gain respect for their country whether they win or lose. Just because the USA doesn’t need the olympics to gain any kind of international respect doesn’t mean we should disrespect those who would like to use it for that purpose. Take the Jamacian bobsled team, for example. They came in last place, but everyone had respect for them. Sure it was a little lighthearted, but its still something.
Nobody wants our atheletes to hide their medals, or not be proud, but its just a question of balance like those said before.
Nice to see you being your usual charming self, GaWd.:rolleyes:
What is your point in resurrecting a comment from me to another poster from several days ago, dicksuck? Trying to just spark an argument because you’re flailing about in the hemi thread?
I mean seriously, you utter not a single word in this thread except to dig at me after I told you to shut the fuck up in that other thread, and the dig came days after the comment. Pathetic.
Who’s the charming one now? :rolleyes:
Dumbfuck.
Sam
In Athens in a few months time, America’s most physically talented young people will be competing against similar people from most other countries. Most other countries will be watching this. These competitors stand for what is best and nobelest in the ideals of many, sport is war without harm, combat of the utmost levels of human strength, agility and endurance. Any athlete at the Olympics is representing their country not just within their sport, but as a symbol of the people of that country.
As such it is in every countries interest for its athletes to be humble in victory and sportsmanlike in defeat, to show pride is fair and should be encouraged. But to show disdain, haughty vulgarity, or juvenile puerility would be against their countries and their own best interest.
The article in the OP shows simply someone trying to install such views into the US olympic team, but doing it somewhat badly.
P.S. I am sick and fucking tired of people who say ‘Well others act like that’ as justification for bad behaviour.
Your indignation is misplaced here.
Everyone else is talking about love of one’s country; you’re talking about love of your sport. Love of one’s sport does not require flag-waving.
I think that respect for other people should be taken into account before one acts. It might be tradition to get in the face of other the people when you win in America, but I think in a lot of countries, more respect is shown for the loser by way of humbly accepting one’s win.
No, actually, I wasn’t. It’s why I said
I just came back to reply to that, but I’m done with this thread. I really don’t think too much more can be said on either side.
Anyone seen Sam?
I’m not suggesting getting in anyone’s face. What I take issue with is the guy from the OP’s cite saying that American athletes shouldn’t take their victory lap or wave a flag in celebration.
Virtually every athlete that wins a gold medal, regardless of country of origin, will take a victory lap or wave his/her country’s flag to celebrate. It’s what’s done at the olympics.
Now this guy is trying to prevent American athletes from doing this because of the “sins of the fathers”. It wasn’t American athletes that made the decisions causing America’s current public relations problems around the world. The athletes shouldn’t have to forgo their life-long dream of a victory lap because some politician screwed up.
Let the athletes compete and celebrate their victories regardless of nationality, and let the politicians that made the PR mess clean it up themselves.