US military in torture scandal

Way to go, Rumsfeld, you stupid asshole.

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And Rummy gets the blame because…?

Pre-emptive strike: “Just a few bad apples, doesn’t reflect policy, proper disciplinary procedure, bla bla bla”.

Anyone else think this gives more credence to the allegations of abuse from former Guantanamo prisoners?

No. But it does show that the US Army is capable of policing its own actions.

My head is spinning.

“I asked them for the rules and regs, man. But I didn’t get anything, so I sat on this guy an committed an indecent act.”

:confused: :confused:

Covered that already: “proper disciplinary procedure, bla bla bla”.

It also shows the US Army is capable of sexual torture, which is one of the allegations about GITMO that was summarily dismissed here as propagandistic tinfoil hattery.

No. If these allegations are proven true, it shows that a few soldiers are capable of whatever is proven that they did. Pretty much any large enough sample of people will have a few wackos among them, but that doesn’t indict the whole group, does it? Or have the rules recently changed?

Did that one too, Brutus: “Just a few bad apples”.

Sorry, should’ve made that more clear. It’s Rummy’s “new military”, where non-core functions are out sourced to “civilian contractors”, i.e., mercenaries, who are now apparently in charge of torturing prisoners.

Congratulations. The fact that you listed three sensible points, then followed with a ‘bla bla bla’, does not negate those three points you know.

You say ‘sensible’, I say ‘knee-jerk’.

Gotta go with jjimm on this one. Brutus, you’re being a little naive and gullible.

The US Army seems to be unable to police itself.

17 and a general all in the same prison seems like too many bad apples on a single bunch. YMMV

Probably, but not regarding this issue. After all, if you were to discount the three sensible points that jjimm brings up, then you are left with, “The Army is a torture factory”, which is obviously not true.

Sure it does. Actions in violation of the UCMJ may have occurred, and the Army is investigating, as they have done in the past. If the allegations are proven true, then some people are going to be cooling it in Leavenworth for a while. ‘Policing itself’ does not only mean that efforts will be made that certain actions will not occur; It also means that if they do occur, the Army will take care of those who committed them.

Well no all it shows is that when wankers take photos and pass them around they get caught.

If these Iraqis had of got out of wherever they were and said that these things happened you’d be the first to dismiss them as anti-US properganda merchants. I don’t think that all accusations should be just believed but it does show that these things are possibly happening.

The accusations from GITMO are stronger now IMO.

One thing is sure these pricks have handed the anti-US people a very large stick.


Actually, of the three ‘sensible’ suggestions, the middle one: “not offical policy”, is the one I, of course, do believe. Question is, how far up does the negligence extend? How much leeway is given by other senior officers at other detention facilities? How much tolerance of degradation and humiliation is there throughout all of the US’s detention facilities? Is it even possible that this incident is wholly isolated, or is there the remotest chance that abuses may be several, if not widespread? Serious questions.

The thing is, the Army - any army - isn’t just any group of people, it’s a self-regulating, self-policing group of people, and it’s organized to prevent things like this. Bad apples are indeed inevitable, but the military is supposed to have a system in place that prevents incidents like this. The fact that they happened is a bad sign from an organizational point of view.

And the fact that they had no training or backup from their commanding officers. Is this a single incident as well? How many other untrained unsupported people are guarding prisoners etc.?