Use of the word cunt

[Darth_Panda]

Obviously, it cannot be directed at another poster, no grey area there.

I was a little confused by the mod note in cafe society, though.

@twickster

One thing, though – please don’t throw around the word “cunt” freely. It’s forbidden to call another poster that anywhere on the SDMB, including in the Pit (our free for all forum), and it’s just bad form to call anyone, even a third party, that. I’m not the only one who’s deeply offended by the word, and I’m getting a bunch of reports that y’all are using it in this thread.

I’m happy to let y’all just amuse yourselves as you see fit in here, but you are still subject to not only the rules of this board (our registration agreement, if you want to read it again), but board culture – which draws the line at that particular piece of invective.

Is there some sort of rule against throwing it around freely or directing it against third parties? I never thought that was the case. Honestly it isn’t something I’d ever thought about, but I don’t think I’ve seen it any of the rules or agreement.

[zoid]

I was surprised to see that as well (and although I know no one cares, I thought the comment was inappropriate).

[Ranger_Jeff]

It seems that the word has a different connotation (?) in the UK and/or some countries that feature the Queen on their currency. It’s considered less vile there.

[Crazyhorse]

I was also wondering about this. As far as I know it has never been against the rules to call any off-board person a cunt in any forum.

Here is Ed Zotti making that clear shortly after the prohibition on calling other posters cunts.

@ivn1188

You are a cunt. (Unless you post on or admin the SDMB.)

@Ed_Zotti

This was reported, but it’s not directed at another poster. No foul.

And here’s just one example from Cafe Society specifically in which at least one mod even participated in the thread:

Eat Pray Love (the movie): is Elizabeth Gilbert a cunt or is it just me?

[Fiendish_Astronaut]

I use it as a nickname for pretty much all my best friends. I think in the UK it’s a bit different.

[Frank]

@Darth_Panda

I was a little confused by the mod note in cafe society, though.

I’m confused too. It is not bad form, nor is it against the rules (as twickster tried to imply without actually saying so), nor does board culture draw any line at it.

[zoid]

@Frank

I’m confused too. It is not bad form, nor is it against the rules (as twickster tried to imply without actually saying so), nor does board culture draw any line at it.

And she did it speaking as a mod - clearly misleading.

[tapu]

For the sake of equality, we shouldn’t use “dick” either.

[Darth_Panda]

@tapu

For the sake of equality, we shouldn’t use “dick” either.

Hey, I barely get enough chance to use dick as it is; I don’t need the mods messing up my love life.

[kayaker]

Seems there is far more cunt being tossed around now then before the cunt ruling. Streisand effect, anyone?

[Ken001]

Well, its fighting talk where I come from. Not a word used lightly.

[MichaelEmouse]

@kayaker

Seems there is far more cunt being tossed around now then before the cunt ruling. Streisand effect, anyone?

Modified to fit this forum’s tetragrammaton:
Matthias: Look. I don’t think it ought to be bannable, just saying
“cunt!”

(Sensation!!! The women gasp.)

Women: (high voices) He said it again.
(low voices) He said it again.
Official: (to Matthias) You’re only making it worse for yourself.
Matthias: Making it worse? How can it be worse? Cunt! Cunt! Cunt!

(Great Sensation!!!)

Official: I’m warning you. If you say “cunt” once more …

[zoid]

@kayaker

Streisand

She’s a giant

talent and by most accounts a lovely person

[Aquadementia]

I’m sure the one place they love seeing that word most is in thread titles.

@zoid

She’s a giant

talent and by most accounts a lovely person

Also well known for the enormous physical size of her

hats in Hello, Dolly!

[mhendo]

Once again, twickster confuses “Things that are against the rules” and “Things that i personally don’t like.”

News at 11.

[John_Mace]

@Frank

I’m confused too. It is not bad form, nor is it against the rules (as twickster tried to imply without actually saying so), nor does board culture draw any line at it.

It looks like several of the new posters that migrated en masse here for that thread reported its use. I knew nothing good would come of this immigration thing-- they’re trying to change “board culture”!!

[twickster]

It was my understanding that the word wasn’t allowed at all in the Pit – a forum I don’t read – so my bad on that.

It is the case that we expect a certain level of civility in Cafe Society. I got a significant number of reports on the use of the word in that thread, so I posted in the thread, as a mod, welcoming the newbies and telling them we expect a certain level of civility in Cafe Society.

You’ll note that I didn’t call anyone out by name – in fact, I specifically didn’t call anyone out by name – and that I certainly didn’t issue any warnings for it.

Bottom line, same as the last dozen times it’s come up in ATMB: In the US, it’s a deeply offensive word, and in a US-based board, as this is, that fact should be kept in mind.

[Green_Bean]

I have no problem at all with twickster stating her own personal opinion about the word and/or board culture, but given that she was speaking in a post that was specifically marked as “Mod Note,” she strongly implied that her personal opinion was official board policy. That is over the line.

At least one newbie assumed twickster was stating an official rule prohibiting the use of “cunt” on that basis even going so far as to scold and demand an apology from me. The newbie had no way of knowing of twickster’s idiosyncratic moderation style. She had no way of knowing that she needs to read any of twickster’s posts with extra care and check back to the actual board rules in order to separate out twickster’s personal opinions about what she doesn’t like from the legitimate moderation content.

Twickster’s second post (501) was appreciated, but she still did not clarify what the ACTUAL rule is. She should go in there and tell them that posters are allowed to use the word “cunt” on the SDMB. If she has to swallow her pride to do it, so be it. It is not fair to the newbies to leave the matter as ambiguous.
ETA - Twickster’s post snuck in while I was writing the above:

I got a significant number of reports on the use of the word in that thread…

So what if you got reports? It’s not against the rules, therefore the reports are irrelevant. If you were going to make any kind of public response addressing the reports, it should be to make it absolutely clear that the reports are being disregarded becasue no rules were violated.

You’ll note that I didn’t call anyone out by name – in fact, I specifically didn’t call anyone out by name – and that I certainly didn’t issue any warnings for it.

These are NEWBIES. They do not know the difference between a mod note and a warning.

When you use “I didn’t issue any warnings” as a defense/justification, you imply that only warnings are actually important. I’ve been taking mod notes and even minor hand-slaps as worthy of my attention all this time. Silly me. This also raises the inevitable question of “if mod notes aren’t important, why do you issue so many of them?”

In the US, it’s a deeply offensive word, and in a US-based board, as this is, that fact should be kept in mind.

It’s a “deeply offensive word” to YOU. It is offensive to Twickster, the individual person. Twickster the moderator should be moderating according to board rules and board rules ONLY.

If Twickster, as a poster and member of this community, would like to point out that she finds the word offensive, as do a lot of other people, and she thinks it best if we limit our use of it, that’s just fine. As long as you make it clear that you are NOT moderating this board when you say it.

[yojimbo]

twickster I’m not getting what you are saying here. Please try to be clear as it seems you are being vague. You posted something as a mod. Now you are basically telling us “I was just saying, is all” well ok. Just say whatever you want but keep the mod hat away from such things.
This is all very 4 years ago.

Bad precedent

That thread started off because twickster didn’t like someone saying cunt.

The thread ended with Ed Zotti saying

It’s time to bring some closure to this. To review, we (that is, the SDMB staff) screwed up. Specifically:

1. A poster called an off-board individual a cunt in post #41 on 3-29 in the thread in question. We issued a mod note in post #45 on 3-30.

This was a mistake. Although we don’t encourage posters to direct vulgarities at off-board individuals, we’ve never had a rule against it. We have a rule against hateful material, and would likely take exception to terms such as nigger, kike, etc. Cunt isn’t usually thought of as falling into that category. The only rule we have regarding this term is that it can’t be directed at another poster in the Pit. Outside the Pit, you can’t insult other posters, period.

2. The poster called the off-board individual a cunt again in post #193 on 4-9. We subsequently issued a warning. When asked about this, we said the warning had been issued because the poster had disobeyed a moderator’s instructions.

This was also a mistake. Our rules state, “You agree to abide by the wishes of the board moderators in interpreting and enforcing these rules. Refusal to cooperate with board moderators or to abide by these rules is grounds for revocation of your posting privileges.” No rule had been broken, and there was little evidence of refusal to cooperate. The second instance of cunt was nine days and 148 posts after the issuance of the mod note. There was minimal discussion of the note during the intervening time, none of it by the poster in question. He didn’t appear to be openly defying the mod note; the simplest explanation is he never saw it.

Let me be clear: we don’t allow open defiance of mod rulings, and had the poster been defiant, the warning would have been proper, even if the original ruling were ill-considered. But that wasn’t the case here. We just messed up. The warning accordingly has been rescinded, as you see. Our apologies for the confusion.

I know **twickster ** didn’t issue a warning and is just asking us to keep things in mind.

Well there’s no rule against it so I’ll just ignore your request to keep things in mind. If you are uncomfortable doing your job here then don’t do it. I pay to post here and I follow the rules as best I can. I don’t have to worry if I’m upsetting you with my language, politics or views. It’s your problem not mine.

Your job should be to make sure the rules are followed and nothing more. You’ve done this before why do it again.

[Morgenstern]

@twickster

…
…In the US, it’s a deeply offensive word, and in a US-based board, as this is, that fact should be kept in mind.

Deeply offensive? Seriously? Most of us don’t give it a second thought when we see it.