Valley of the Little Shits

[dantheman]

Originally posted by Manda JO *
Dantheman, they have chosen to act badly because that seems like a good idea to them–because they don’t see any reason not to act badly. My whole point is that bitching about how it is their fault and their fault alone may be satisfying, but it is not effective.*

But what really would be? There have been plenty of suggestions in this thread, but none of them are guaranteed to work, either. Sure, doing something about a problem is always better than not, but if there’s no viable alternative, why not kvetch?

Actually, the best plan would be for the current rules to be enforced. I admit I was definitely hasty in asking they be banned - that’s just not commonsense at all. But there are some very strict rules that had been enforced pretty rigidly before; perhaps a return to that would be helpful.

I don’t feel right blaming the parents entirely, though (although probably some of them really are lax); sometimes kids are taught very well not to act a certain way, and then they do it anyway. This doesn’t absolve them from their actions, of course.

I don’t think you appriciate how isolated many kids are from “adult” culture. I work with these kids. A great many of them are living is situations that you and I cannot comprehend. You’d be shocked to find out how many of those kids have parents only 14-15 years older than themselves. You’d be shocked to find out how many of them have kids of thier own.

I dunno how shocked I’d be. But I still say that no matter their situation, they should know how to behave.

Look, as I said before - if this was all taking place on a school bus, then the kids would face retribution (reprimanded by principal, or detained, or expelled, even). If it took place on a public bus, they’d face retribution (driver might kick them off). It should be the same here.

I agree that they probably don’t have the same exposure to adults that you or I might, but I don’t think that means they don’t know how to behave around adults. Or just in public in general. The problem is that they’re treating the train as if it were the school bus.

Again, they shouldn’t act this way. But I don’t think that taking away public transportation–which is the only way for some of these kids to ever get out of their world and see “adult” behavoir modeled–is the way to go. If my husband hadn’t had public transportation he’d have never been able to expose himself to all the things that helped lift him up above his own grim reality.

I grew up with no public transportation at all. It’s not necessary to have public transportation to survive to adulthood.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

*Originally posted by dantheman *
**

I want proof of this. NOW.

You continue to make assumptions with absolutely zero proof. Do you know what this makes you? It makes you a lunatic. Either back up your assertions, or shut up. **

Don’t tell me to shut up, asswipe.
As for proof, I cite your original OP. You make no mention of telling these kids not to do it.

By “nobody” I meant “nobody in this thread”. Because the people in this thread, and the children in that traincar, are the only sample of information we know about.

Pretty strong words there, chief. You’re saying anyone who has any problem whatsoever with kids is a bad parent? Great logic.

No. I’m saying that an angry ranting kook who can’t grasp that children are just plain loud and more than a little “hyper” shouldn’t have kids.

And by the way, dumbfuck, you seem to play fast & loose with the record.

You said in your OP–

There are days when this isn’t a problem. Sure, the kids will talk loudly, congregate in groups, and generally be a little disruptive. But it’s not a real problem; they’re kids, and most people don’t pay them much attention.

So you admit that “most people don’t pay them much attention”. I guess that makes you oversensitive by definition, don’t it?

Then–

My “demand” is not a practical one. I really just wanted to rant…

you admit the entire premise of your OP is invalid & impractical, & your only reason is to abuse these kids. Sounds less like a man with a legit gripe, (in fact, you come right out & say it ain’t valid) , & more like a guy who’s overworked with too long a commute. If it wasn’t the kids, I’d bet you’d be ranting about radios, or old people who rattle on forever with stories, or litter, or somedamnthing.

Yesterday’s trip home was pretty bad. I spent much of the time with some fat little shit sitting next to me, crowding me, apologizing once and then continuing to take up 87% of my seat while talking to 12 of his nearest and dearest friends all over the train car. Oh, and he passed gas at least once. Oh, and pushed and shoved at least a few people while sitting there (they were walking down the aisle).

So this evil child had the **insolence ** to apologise to your sanctified, flea-riddled ass? How dreadful! :rolleyes:

And then he passed gass? Oh, I guess he should have taken a colonic, & then saalaamed three times towards Atlantis before approaching you, Your Holiness. It couldn’t possibly be anything like indigestion. Oh no. The child is obviously an assassin.

He “pushed & shoved” while sitting? Good trick. Could it be the car was crowded? With “12 of his nearest” etc.? Nooo… nobody pushes, shoves or crowds on public transportation. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :smack:

You are the biggest dumbshit I’ve seen in years. Adjust your tinfoil hat, schmuck.

And I just love you. You gave me everything I needed to discredit your crap in your own OP. :wally
tdn – why do you choose to use African-American slang in your post? The post which does not related to the OP in any way? The child in the OP apologised. Are you on crack? Your rant reminds me of the raddled jabber of a junkie, crossed with a KKK pamplet. Swine.

[MandaJo]

Look, as I said before - if this was all taking place on a school bus, then the kids would face retribution (reprimanded by principal, or detained, or expelled, even). If it took place on a public bus, they’d face retribution (driver might kick them off). It should be the same here.

Ha ha ha ha. The worst thing a public school can do to a Bad Kid (and I define a bad kid as one that dosen’t give a flying fuck what anyone in authority thinks of them) is to force them to come to school. We have the legal authority to do that. Besides that, we can do nothing. Now then, if the kid does give a flying fuck–if he is involved in any sort of extra-curricular activity, if he has parents who give him something, anything, and so can threaten to take that thing away, if he takes advantage of any privilege offered to him, then we have a hook with which to manipulate him. But an alarming number of them have no hook. They don’t care about anyone or anything in the adult world, and so are invunrable to disciplene for anything short of a criminal offence.

I do agree with you that the rules as they stand should be enforced, but I agree with you as much becuase it would be to the ultimate benefit of these kids as because it would make the ride more pleasant for fellow riders.

I grew up with no public transportation at all. It’s not necessary to have public transportation to survive to adulthood.

It’s not necessary to lave love, either, or effection, or education, or disciplene. But all these things make you better person and someone who contributes to instead of detracts from society. And I suspect that if you lived in a place with no publixc transportation, then someone in your family had a car.

[dantheman]

*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor *
**As for proof, I cite your original OP. You make no mention of telling these kids not to do it.

By “nobody” I meant “nobody in this thread”. Because the people in this thread, and the children in that traincar, are the only sample of information we know about.**

Bosda, I’ll try to operate under the assumption that you’re under some medication, or something. Your posts border on incoherent.

But to make sure I understand your point, are you saying that because I didn’t say so in my OP, it didn’t happen? Good grief!

No. I’m saying that an angry ranting kook who can’t grasp that children are just plain loud and more than a little “hyper” shouldn’t have kids.

Again, I say you weren’t there, and you offer no evidence to the contrary. I’ll ask you again - are you on these trains? No?

Then how the hell could you POSSIBLY thinkk that these children as “just plain loud”?

What’s wrong with you? Seriously, I’d like to know. You’re beginning to ramble, and it’s a little scary.

You said yourself you have only my OP and the sample of people posting to this thread to go by, and yet you assume a) that no one told these kids to shut up and b) that these kids are doing nothing more than being a little loud.

How have you come to this conclusion, may I ask? After all, several people have chimed in that kids are this bad on the trains. And yet you disagree, despite the fact (apparently) that you don’t even ride these trains.

So you admit that “most people don’t pay them much attention”. I guess that makes you oversensitive by definition, don’t it?

Huh? I said I noticed the ones who were acting up. Please provide the definition of “oversensitive” that equates to “noticing ones who are acting up.” They’re not the same thing. The fact is, people will always notice the ones who act more rambunctious.

you admit the entire premise of your OP is invalid & impractical, & your only reason is to abuse these kids. Sounds less like a man with a legit gripe, (in fact, you come right out & say it ain’t valid) , & more like a guy who’s overworked with too long a commute. If it wasn’t the kids, I’d bet you’d be ranting about radios, or old people who rattle on forever with stories, or litter, or somedamnthing.

That’s funny; I don’t think I’ve admitted that reason at all. But thanks again for making a huge assumption.

I said in the OP that banning the kids from the trains was impractical - perhaps you missed that in your weird rage.

He “pushed & shoved” while sitting? Good trick. Could it be the car was crowded? With “12 of his nearest” etc.? Nooo… nobody pushes, shoves or crowds on public transportation. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :smack:

You’re having problems with comprehension again, Bosda. It’s no wonder you’re not considered one of the smart ones on here.

First, I’m not sure how it’s a “good trick” to push while sitting down. Perhaps you haven’t mastered it, but it can be done. You see, when one is turning around to wrestle with the person behind one, when one is lunging across the aisle to push another, when one is wrestling with another person in the seat next to me, then yes indeedy, pushing occurs.

You are the biggest dumbshit I’ve seen in years.

I am? What do I win? You really need to get out more, maybe hang out with more adults.

Each of your posts in this thread has been progressively worse than the last one, and frankly I’m not sure why.

[dantheman]

*Originally posted by Manda JO *
**

Ha ha ha ha. The worst thing a public school can do to a Bad Kid (and I define a bad kid as one that dosen’t give a flying fuck what anyone in authority thinks of them) is to force them to come to school. We have the legal authority to do that. Besides that, we can do nothing. **

Manda, that may be true of your district, but it’s not true in all of them. Remember Zero Tolerence? Kids were expelled (still are, sadly) for the tiniest of infractions. So it can be done, but perhaps not everywhere.

It’s not necessary to lave love, either, or effection, or education, or disciplene. But all these things make you better person and someone who contributes to instead of detracts from society. And I suspect that if you lived in a place with no publixc transportation, then someone in your family had a car.

Yup, we had a car, which isn’t quite the same as public transportation. Love you can get from your family. I’m just saying it’s probably not a good idea to place such a premium on the value of public transportation to the childhood. Kids have grown up without it and survived - in fact, adults get by fine without it, too.

[MandaJo]

Manda, that may be true of your district, but it’s not true in all of them. Remember Zero Tolerence? Kids were expelled (still are, sadly) for the tiniest of infractions. So it can be done, but perhaps not everywhere.

Being expelled is not a punishment in any way, shape, or form to a great many of these kids. They don’t want to go to school. They do not see school as a place that has anything whatsoever to offer them. The adults in their life share this view. I stand by my assertion that there exisits a sizable body of kids form whom there are no possible negitive consequesnces (that they can percieve).

Yup, we had a car, which isn’t quite the same as public transportation. Love you can get from your family. I’m just saying it’s probably not a good idea to place such a premium on the value of public transportation to the childhood. Kids have grown up without it and survived - in fact, adults get by fine without it, too.

Surely you can see that for a child who lives in an economically depressed area with no access to safe libraries, muesuems, or parks and whose family cannot provide any sort of transportation to any of those things, readily avalible transportation can be a key factor in allowing that child to transcend their poverty? To simply see that there are other ways to live?

[dantheman]

Well, okay - that they can perceive. That’s true - there are consequences we set, and there are consequences they have no problem dealing with.

And as for the public transportation, sure - I agree wholeheartedly that it’s a great way for a child to “transcend their poverty.” And if they are actually using it to go to museums, libraries, and parks, then isn’t their exposure to the adult world broadened that much more? I thought you said before that you thought perhaps the train was pretty much the only exposure those kids were getting to the adult world.

Either way, the train certainly isn’t hindering their development. Still, you have to wish they’d behave like everyone else on the train, including their fellow classmates who aren’t acting up (or out).

[MandaJo]

And as for the public transportation, sure - I agree wholeheartedly that it’s a great way for a child to “transcend their poverty.” And if they are actually using it to go to museums, libraries, and parks, then isn’t their exposure to the adult world broadened that much more? I thought you said before that you thought perhaps the train was pretty much the only exposure those kids were getting to the adult world.

I must not hve been clear–what I meant was that the train was the only way to transport them to the adult world, and that if you took that away they would be limited to whatever is avalible within walking distance of their home. This is not something that should be done lightly.

Still, you have to wish they’d behave like everyone else on the train, including their fellow classmates who aren’t acting up (or out).

Well, of course. You also have to wish that they would come out of the womb potty-trained. But maybe remembering that this experience of being bounced around in adult society means that some of them, at least, have a chance of learning to be adults will help you be more patient.

[dantheman]

Well, can’t hurt. Unless, of course, they’re only using the train to go to nudie bars.

[phouka]

galt - nice guess, but you’re wrong.

I teach 7th - 12th grade in a rural district that has a 72% student poverty level, a minority population near 55%, and an ESL population that is a third of the kids. I deal middle class white kids, poor brown kids, trailer trash kids, 13 year old boys who beat their girlfriends, 14 year old girls who get beaten by dads, racists, alcoholics, illegal immigrants, and anything else that gets thrown my way.

And you know what?

In my class, they know how to behave. They take off their hats when they enter. They put art supplies back when they’re finished. The dictionaries all get stacked exactly how I like them.

And not once have I put a finger on one of these kids. I’ve written five referrals for my eighth graders - the ones I see three times a day for English, Writing, and Art - in six weeks, and two of those were for chewing gum.

I have corrected young people in public. In restaurants. In malls. In grocery stores. They may not respond in the most welcoming manner, but I get my point across, and I get a response.

I don’t pretend to be their buddies or friends. I don’t use slang, because I know it would be ridiculous. I use a respectful, friendly, non-nonsense tone of voice. I make sure I get eye contact, and if necessary, I step into their personal space. I do not threaten. I do not intimidate.

So, while you and tdn are bitching about the evil children around us, I arch an eyebrow, make a request, and get what I want.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

dantheman that was the best display of “spin” & backpeddlling I’ve seen since the Clinton Administration!

Face it–your OP was dumb & dopey, & you admitted you were wrong from the start yourself.

And your complete unwillingness to admit that the child was well-brought-up enough to apologise blows you & most of your skittlewit allies right out of the water. Did you expect multiple, continous apologies from the wee tad? And the sacrifice of a virgin to your hulking ass afterwards, no doubt.

Your sniveling, whinning & kevtching about the child’s flatulence brands you as pathetic, a shivvering wretch; & a broken wreck of a man you are, to be sure.

As for my providing all the proof… well, you made the assertations in the OP, none of which were proven in that post. Remember the rule? If you make the initial assertation, then you gotta prove it correct.

Your OP had so many internal contradictions that you shot yourself down before you opened your drooling, pus-swollen lips.

All the data you have provided indicates that you met a small child on the subway, it was crowded, he apologised for being crowded against you, he had some gas, & you are ** a candidate for cranky dipshit of the year!**

love & kisses,
Bosda

[The_Green_Feather]

There are a couple of people in this thread that sound like… the kids on the Metro train!

*Originally posted by dantheman *

Actually, the best plan would be for the current rules to be enforced. I admit I was definitely hasty in asking they be banned - that’s just not commonsense at all. But there are some very strict rules that had been enforced pretty rigidly before; perhaps a return to that would be helpful.

The Metro cops enforced the rules too rigidly. They arrested, handcuffed and took into custody a school girl for eating a candy bar in the station. No warnings, no corrective instructions, no ejection from the station.

Please don’t ask for a cite, it was in the Washington Post some time back.

The public backlash was justified, but the Metro police response was not. They just gave up. Now they don’t enforce the rules at all. Anyone breaking the rules should at least get a warning, be told their actions are against the rules, and if they continue to break the rules, eject them from the nearest station, or throw their ass in jail.

These are rules, NOT commandments from GOD!

[dantheman]

Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor *
**
Face it–your OP was dumb & dopey, & you admitted you were wrong from the start yourself.*

Reread the OP. I said the idea of banning the kids was impractical. This does not negate the entire OP. You’ve been here long enough to know better.

Also, if you thought it was “dumb and dopey,” the please explain why you bothered to post to it. Was someone holding a gun to your head?

I suspect you just saw yourself as champion of children everywhere and couldn’t be bothered to read anything with any sort of depth to it beyond your hot button.

And your complete unwillingness to admit that the child was well-brought-up enough to apologise blows you & most of your skittlewit allies right out of the water. Did you expect multiple, continous apologies from the wee tad? And the sacrifice of a virgin to your hulking ass afterwards, no doubt.

Cite, please. Never said the kid wasn’t well-brought up. Ever. You’ve consistently made shit up in this thread, and you’ve never backed up one word of your crap. So again, I say: Back it up or shut up.

Your sniveling, whinning & kevtching about the child’s flatulence brands you as pathetic, a shivvering wretch; & a broken wreck of a man you are, to be sure.

Sounds like you have a serious problem dealing with people, Bosda. In nearly every post you’ve made in this thread, you’ve just spewed some kind of venom, while everyone else has either commiserated or asked pointed, relevant questions. I’m not perfect, but don’t see me contributing absolutely nothing other than a steady stream of assumptions with zero evidence.

As for my providing all the proof… well, you made the assertations in the OP, none of which were proven in that post. Remember the rule? If you make the initial assertation, then you gotta prove it correct.

What would you like me to prove? You’ve never asked for anything; in fact, you’ve gone the other way, simply assuming things that never were.

So I ask you: What do you want proven?

Also, remember. This is not a debate. This is not a call for opinion. This is not a plea for an answer to a question. I don’t have to justify my personal experience.

Your OP had so many internal contradictions that you shot yourself down before you opened your drooling, pus-swollen lips.

All the data you have provided indicates that you met a small child on the subway, it was crowded, he apologised for being crowded against you, he had some gas, & you are ** a candidate for cranky dipshit of the year!**

“All the data” I have provided does not indicate I “met a small child.” If you bothered to read more than the words that bother you the most, you would have noted that I said the car was overrun with children, not one. That only after pushing and shoving for an extended period of time did he apologize. I didn’t point out that the apology was, at best, half-hearted. But you did assume otherwise; given the circumstances indicated in the OP, that’s an odd assumption to make.

It seems a little strange that you’re the only one who had a problem with the OP. It may be that others simply don’t want to pile on, and I can respect that.

So let me just ask everyone now: Is what Bosda is saying justified?

[dantheman]

*Originally posted by The Green Feather *
**The public backlash was justified, but the Metro police response was not. They just gave up. Now they don’t enforce the rules at all. Anyone breaking the rules should at least get a warning, be told their actions are against the rules, and if they continue to break the rules, eject them from the nearest station, or throw their ass in jail.

These are rules, NOT commandments from GOD! **

I agree wholeheartedly! It’s as if Metro only operates on two levels: all-out repression and total apathy. Kind of sad.

Aside from the lack of enforcement, it’s still a great train system.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

“All the data” I have provided does not indicate I “met a small child.” If you bothered to read more than the words that bother you the most, you would have noted that I said the car was overrun with children, not one. That only after pushing and shoving for an extended period of time did he apologize. I didn’t point out that the apology was, at best, half-hearted. But you did assume otherwise; given the circumstances indicated in the OP, that’s an odd assumption to make.

Nope, nope, nope.

You said–

Yesterday’s trip home was pretty bad. I spent much of the time with some fat little shit sitting next to me, crowding me, apologizing once and then continuing to take up 87% of my seat while talking to 12 of his nearest and dearest friends all over the train car. Oh, and he passed gas at least once. Oh, and pushed and shoved at least a few people while sitting there (they were walking down the aisle).

You mentioned one child behaving in a way you found irritating on that day. You said nothing about “extended periods of time” , nor any alleged half-heartedness.

Moreover, your own posts speak more of fury & irrationality than mine do. Do you despise these children that much? :eek:

[dantheman]

Mods, please close this thread. It’s only serving to make the two of us angrier and angrier, to no point. Thanks in advance.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

Humph.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

I meant “hurumph”. :rolleyes:

[gobear]

From a fellow DC Metro rider: Bosda, you do no tknow what you are talking about. You live in a hick town in Tennessee and you do not know what it is like to be surrounded by noisy, unmannered children in an enclosed space. Dan is not making blanket judgemetns on all children everywhere; he is talking about the bad behavior of some kids on the Metro, and hate to break it to you, but it does happen here.

Phouka[/b[, you are writing amazingly naively for a teacher,You ought to know that your method of control works in a classroom where you have an ongoing position of authority. On a train in a big city like DC, the errant youngster is much more likely to tell Dan** to fuck himself. That’s just reality.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

*Originally posted by gobear *
From a fellow DC Metro rider: Bosda, you do no tknow what you are talking about. You live in a hick town in Tennessee and you do not know what it is like to be surrounded by noisy, unmannered children in an enclosed space. Dan is not making blanket judgemetns on all children everywhere; he is talking about the bad behavior of some kids on the Metro, and hate to break it to you, but it does happen here.

[list=1]
[li]Fuck off, fool. You think that crowded areas packed with noisy kids don’t happen outside of the city you live in? Idiot.[/li][li]I was not born here , I’ve lived in Chicago, rural Wisconsin, a mostly military city called Huntsville, and Orlando. I’ve been to the University, won a National Merit Scholarship For Academic Achievement, & helped raise my 3 brothers & sisters.So don’t assume my views are those of a hick, you fuckwit baboon.[/li][li]I have been enclosed in a crowded vehicle with kids. On the schoolbus. In a small car overcrowded with kids. And just about anyplace else I could name.[/li][li]As for “bad behavior”, I don’t recall that being the issue, dumbshit. The issue was that dantheman had a crappy day at work, some little fat kid took up too much room to suit dan, the kid farted, & then apologised. Now dantheman wants to kick all the kids off the train forever.[/li][/list=1]

Phouka, you are writing amazingly naively for a teacher,You ought to know that your method of control works in a classroom where you have an ongoing position of authority. On a train in a big city like DC, the errant youngster is much more likely to tell** Dan** to fuck himself.

Rules will work if enforced. This thread has already stated that the rules are not being enforced.

BTW, the child in question did not tell dan to fuck himself.
He apologised!

gobear, I would suggest that you haul your idiot ass to the OP in this thread. Read it. In full.

Then come back & review this thread.

Unless you assume that each & every child in the world is automatically a pistol-packin’ gang member, you have to admit that dantheman was only talking about a bunch of kids who were talking too loud on the way home from school {too loud to suit him :rolleyes: }, one of the kids was crowded against him { I’m not suprised, subways are crowded, why are you, a allegedly more experienced rider unaware of this?}, and a child farted.

For this he wants to empty the subway of kids?? :smack:

The issue is the events described in the first post of this thread. Not some scene out of West Side Story that is playing out in your imagination.

That’s just reality.

When you get back on your strong medications, you may, possibly, be in touch with reality again. Until then, lay back, breathe deeply, and do the positive affirmations the Doctors taught you to do…

At the Insane Asylum, where you were locked up for your raving, delusional, paranoia.

Now, repeat after me: “The Children Are Not Out To Get Me, The Children Do Not Have Knives. The Children Are Not Out To Get Me, The Children Do Not Have Knives.The Children Are Not Out To Get Me, The Children Do Not Have Knives.”
:wally