No it can’t.
What? Vandalism is the intentional destruction of property. The people didn’t intend to damage the monuments. They just didn’t know what oil does to those monuments. They’re idiots, not vandals.
Would you please list all of the actions by the pro-war/conservative movement that you do not wish to be associated with?
Of course not, but an idiot starting a forest fire is a lot different than an arsonist doing it intentionally.
What the fuck is the difference between a movement and a cause, then? Are you saying that this is one lone person running around vandalizing Gettysburg, a helicopter and the Vietnam War Memorial?
Clearly, the same thing happened here that happens in every one of your fucking threads - you saw some bullshit on some tardcore rightwing website and thought, “Ah ha! This’ll really show those liberals. This one’s armor plated.” You run over here, and the shit blows up in your face.
I just marvel at your lack of shame. Really, you oughta at some point be embarrassed by your silly bullshit.
Let’s face facts. The evidence is pretty strong that there are some people out there who are defacing war memorials. And it’s almost certain that they figure they’re protesting the Iraq war by doing this.
These people are idiots pure and simple. Their protest is being made at the expense of some the people on whose behalf they are supposedly protesting - many people like myself are against this war because we like members of the armed forces and don’t like seeing them killed needlessly. And as a means of protest it’s stupid as its most likely outcome will be to strengthen the views of people who are against the anti-war movement.
That said these acts of vandalism are no more representative of the anti-war movement than a burning cross is representative of the conservative movement. Every group of any size will have a few nuts out on the fringe.
Yep, anti-Civil War activists will no doubt be taking some heat for this new oil-pouring incident.
Meanwhile, since you’re so outraged over the Vietnam Veterans Memorial vandalism, and since you’ve figured out that it’s religious nuts rather than antiwar activists who pour oil on shit… why don’t you drop the wholly unsubstantiated link to antiwar activism and get started bitching about religiously motivated vandals? After all, this stuff can make honest and moderate religious people look bad as well.
Tardcore. Heh.
With the rather weak exception of the Andover incident, I have seen nothing that links memorial vandalism to protest of the Iraq war.
Agree totally. On this you clearly are a better messenger than I am.
They sure can. Two incidents in three years? Goldfinger calls it ‘coincidence,’ and I conclude that you’re a dummy.
Ah, yes, the concern trollery comes in. You’re just worried that it might make us DFH’s look bad. Not that you’d try to push some bullshit to try to make us look bad first, nosir. :rolleyes:
First rule of holes, and all that.
But to agree with that is to agree that “people against the anti-war movement” are irrational and do not base their beliefs on facts. Oh, nevermind.
No. This is the first mention you’ve made of it. Your Gettysburg link is to a page that was last updated on 1/21/01, so it rather obviously doesn’t mention it either.
And I damned sure am not going to believe anything you say without a gold-plated cite, because half the stuff you do claim a cite for, turns out to be bullshit when you click the link.
You have no credibility. None.
Okay.
This is a fact.
This is not a fact.
Um, the Washington Post is not any of those things you described. And I haven’t posted anything from any rightwing sites in this thread, have I?
In fact, as a general rule, I do not cite those websites.
Much of the vandalism in Gettysburg of late is attributed to shitheels who wish to scrap the bronze or other desirable metals they can scavenge from desecration of the battlefield monuments.
The only statement they wish to make is: I am a soulless piece of shit.
No, you just follow those sites religiously, then mindlessly post the links provided without doing any followup to see what’s what. Kind of hard to sling that much mud around without getting any on yourself, and yet you keep on doing it.
Mr. Moto, only someone with a very small and unreasonable mind would associate all of you who are part of the anti-peace movement with the outlandish claims found in Bush’s speeches. So I won’t say that Bush’s speeches put all war supporters in a bad light. His disorders and/or illness are not yours.
But your dismay at dececrated memorials while dececrated human beings rot in the streets of Iraq put you in a very bad light. I am going to assume that you are just not thinking clearly.
If you really want to honor veterans, both the living and the dead, don’t let one more of them die for reasons unknown. at best.
Anybody standing guard over the Grenada Memorial tonight? I mean, if you want to make an “anti-war” argument, calling attention to an utterly senseless military adventure, that would be the one.
What makes me smell a rat is that its the Viet Nam Memorial. Many of us on the “anti-war” left know one or more of those names, our reverence for it is entirely appropriate, but personal. Patriotism doesn’t really enter into it.
The is a persistent myth amongst the rightward, the “anti-war” archtype, the same guys who caused us to lose Viet Nam, and hate the military and are running around burning flags just about every other day… But your basic “anti-war” adult has a sentimental regard for the Viet Nam Memorial. Making it an unlikely target. And whats this about unidentified oily stuff? You’d think a guy who will spend 30 hours making a 15 ft. paper-mache puppet of the Running Dog Jackal would make a more pointed symbolism. It would seem at least to require some light, sweet crude, doncha think?
And there are some, sure, loonies. There are people who are loony about vegetables, loony about fashion, you can’t be surprised that sometimes people get loony about shit that matters!
Littering? Tagging? Wouldn’t a political movement leave a more specific message?
The ones who started this obscene war Look Bad. No “might” about it.
Moto: Why not just stick to denouncing individual acts of vandalism, and throw in a extra WTF? for doing so to a war memorial. Trying to link those to “the anti-war movement” is what’s losing people here. There are nuts in the “anti-war movement” and there are nuts in the “pro-war movement”. And sometimes there are just hooligans out to mess things up without any political agenda at all.
This place is notoriously famous for not letting people sneak in little messages that try to smear the other side, even if there are more on the left to pounce on people, like you, who do it from the right wing perspective. You can be an effective debater at times for the conservative cause, but not when you post like this.
Once again, I don’t assign this to any specific movement, only to certain people who have done horrible things to monuments and memorials. I think we all can agree that no matter how antiwar you are, or how much you believe in God, or how much you’re motivated by whatever motivates you, you shouldn’t vandalize veteran’s memorials.
If I didn’t make this explicitly clear in my OP and in numerous posts since, I’m sorry. But I did post examples of vandalism with explicit political messages - again, merely illustrative, not comprehensive. The failure of folks to see this is somewhat suggestive to me, frankly.
I’ll gladly retract my original statement regarding the Vietnam Veterans Memorial - especially given the possibility of a link with peace activists who are motivated by different ideology. I’ll also agree that a lot of this vandalism may not be ideological at all.
Still, there seems to have been an increase in these incidents. Whether it is associated with a general rise in vandalism in general, I don’t know, I’m researching that some more. Still, if I didn’t make it clear enough, what I’m pitting is an action, an action that can’t be defended on any grounds.