If this is the cool kids place, who the hell let me in?
Oh, right. vanilla. Ummm, hope she can come back after 30 days, but then again, I’ve never had any major gripes with her.
That’s three different flavours of horseshit.
Look, I agree that vanilla is sweet as all get out and that, gosh darn it, people like her.
Still, Tuba’s response wasn’t out of line, under the circumstances. It might have been better suited to e-mail, but whatever.
Personally, now that this has unfolded the way it has, I feel like I (and possibly other Dopers) did vanilla a disservice by not being critical. I opened that thread when there were only four replies, and my immediate impression was that vanilla was way off the mark about the situation. I found the implied sense of entitlement in the OP appalling.
Still, I was hesitant to utter a critical word against the woman, especially since at that point her last word was that she’d e-mail her pastor. I figured he’d straighten things out in a diplomatic way. That’s his job, after all, and of course he’d have a better sense of perspective.
I think the encouragment she received from folks in the thread who uncritically accepted her version of events gave her a dangerous and possibly false sense of righteousness that helped to lead her into extreme foolishness.
I don’t think a properly circumspect Christian would have acted the way vanilla did in sending a link to her thread to that woman/her husband/whatever, and I don’t think it’s so terrible to say so out loud, especially if it’s a better motivator for her than just enumerating the damned board rules.
The most desirable outcome is that vanilla manages to find a way to bring the nice things she brings to the SDMB through her participation without relapsing into her habit of tracking her personal shit all over the carpet. You can only say “We’re not going to tolerate this,” so many times. Anything that can be said that penetrates deeply enough to have the effect of obviating the need for a permanent banning is a kindness.
I hope that, given a little time, she’ll be properly contrite, be restored to us at the end of her thirty days, and really get that it’s better not to drag a bag of cats into our forums in the future. She’s a peach and if she gets thoroughly banned it will be our loss.
Let’s not scratch out Tuba’s eyes for playing the ‘bad cop,’ though. It needs to be done, and I for one am glad that I’m not the one who’s obliged to do it.
How the hell DID you get in?;)
[bad joke] Luckily enough I’m Jewish by heritage, so if I’m ever banned all they can say is “Moses kvetched.” [/bad joke]
Why didn’t you just say it that way to Vanilla? Why all the shock and awe? Why the “despicable behavior” description? (It wasn’t.) Why were you “horrified”? (Now, c’mon.) Why the bolded “You will not use this board and our members as a tool to hit other people” when you used it exactly that way to hit her? (Aside from simply “because I can”.) She couldn’t even respond to your rant.
This is what passes these days for drama?
Heck, we’ve got someone talking about lawsuits:
People are actually questioning this? Christ, I miss Melin. Just because she was so ridiculous that you could dismiss her outright.
But, now we’ve got people playing into this soap opera. Hey, Ilsa Lund, maybe you should quit in protest? Please? And take a few other posters with you?
Doesn’t anybody remember all of the vile things that vanilla has posted? All of her drama? Aren’t there any people out there from back in the day that remember what a nasty and judgmental bitch she is?
And, to think that I actually believed that things would get better if we had to pay to post here.
I’m not particularly fond of Tuba. She overreacts, plays favorites and acts like a ripe fucking cunt.
That being said, she was right to ban vanilla. Hope it sticks. Vanilla’s a stupid twit that has gotten way more chances than she should.
She’s done this before (repeatedly), and will do it again. It pains me that anyone would actually defend her. Well, except the twits that stroke her ego. Maybe they should also quit in protest. Please do a search. You really would be embarrassed to defend her.
PS. Liberal, before you call me a jerk for bashing her when she can’t respond, I’d like to remind you of your Christian values. Then, I’d like to invite you to spend one of the hours in every day that you devote to this board to teaching Native American/Indian/indigenous/tribal/First Nations children (you know, your “people”) how to read. I’d be happy to send/post links to organizations in your area that need assistance. Then, I’d like to remind you that I’ve been here almost as long as you, and can see bullshit when I see it. Vanilla sucks. She always has. Sorry that you, and everyone who has defended her, pities her too much to take a step back and see her for what she is.
With all the Christian love you profess to admire,
Z
Wow, Zhen’ka, you hate everybody. I like that.
At first, I thought Tuba’s banning was correct, but the manner was too rough. Looking at the history of Vanilla and previous warnings, I no longer think the manner was too rough.
For all those who want to hold public trials to second guess a mod/admin action… don’t hold your breath. The board is not a governmental institution or a publicly held organization – it is privately owned. Which means you live by its rules (and the way they are implemented) or you leave (voluntarily or not).
I’m happy with the administration of this board. I see no problems with the admin here in this case.
Peace.
This has nothing to do with the motives and conditions of her ban. She hasn’t been banned for uttering judgmental statements.
Tuba has more class in her ass than you have all over. All she did was overkill the situation, and I’m sure she didn’t do it intentionally.
She didn’t ban Vanilla, you dumbass. She suspended her.
Fuck you. You’re like Satan quoting scripture. Go back to hell.
I’d be happy for you to suck my ass. Just because you’re some sort of glorified tutor/counselor/or-what-the-fuck-ever doesn’t mean that that’s what everyone has to be. You fucking pharisaical slut.
Thank you for pointing this out. If only we had realized this before, we wouldn’t have all accused the admin of violating ** Vanilla ** 's constitutionnal rights.
Err…wait a minute…
Is this thread still going? Fucks sake. If Tuba Diva didn’t do it intentionally, how did she mean it then? You can’t post like that unintentionally. Bout time you all shut the fuck up I reckon.
Zhen’ka, i’m rating your post.
Had I read vanilla’s thread prior to it being closed I would have pointed out (nicely) that the judgmental woman she was complaining about had a reason to be judgmental towards her: If you don’t attend classes all week because you’re sick, you sure as hell don’t show up at the football game on Friday night. Nonetheless, to open up a pit thread about the woman was fair enough. But to invite members of the congregation here to see her rants and the subsequent (misguided, IMO) “rah, rah” posts that followed it was in very bad form indeed.
The way the other posters treated pastorjc once he arrived was deplorable and embarrassing. It was an example of mob mentality at its crassest. I’m glad the thread was closed and I’m not surprised vanilla was suspended. If TubaDiva was harsh in her closing the thread, she had reason to be angry. If vanilla wants to open up a thread so that she can feel validated, that’s one thing. But to link the antagonist in her story to this thread, knowing full well what was bound to happen…well, not only was that not christian, but it was most definitely acting like a jerk.
wrong choice of words perhaps? i was looking at the snippets as a whole, and am not objecting your point. like i said, i’m not familiar with the situation beyond these two threads and i did say the decision is reasonable. however, the concept of being openly chided and the *perceived * need to grovel(?) to be allowed back to the community (after an apparent single infraction) is… disquieting/uncomfortable/whatever.
i have little reason not to trust the administration in doing what is their job after all, and TubaDiva probably had good reasons to post as she did. however, it should come as no surprise if some of the members find it odd that am apparent member in good standing is told off in such a manner and suspended after what is apparently a single infraction.
do i have a solution? no. other than to point out that moderators should consider the peanut gallery when making a decision that might be based on private emails and such.
ps. i have made a lot of assumptions in this thread, mainly of **vanilla ** having made no other incursions these past two years.
pps. despite what i said, i appreciate witty moderators. it will be a joke if the moderators turned all PC and such.
I too have been here for years and agree with you 100 percent. She should have been tipped out the door when they banned Snark. I am surprised and amazed that so many people supporting her either don’t know, don’t remember, or don’t care about the things she has done in the past.
Good move Mods.
I’d like to point out a couple of things, if I may. First, in the thread which started all this kerfuffle, vanilla said it was the couple who’d been driving her to church who’d had to change their schedule and go to the early service in November so she couldn’t ride with them. Her exact words were
I don’t know about her church, but at the churches I’ve gone to, early services usually start an over an hour earlier than later services, say 8:00 am and 10:30 am. In part, vanilla’s not going to church for a few weeks was as much due to them changing their schedule as anything else.
Second, we are talking about 3 weeks here, if all we’re talking about is November. Even if you included Halloween, which fell on a Sunday, that puts it up to 4 weeks. Now, I’m not at all familiar with vanilla’s church or her style of worship, but 3 weeks could be accounted for by a long vacation.
My third point is one which it pains me to point out, because I’m pretty sure vanilla will be reading this when she can. She’s not a saint folks. She and I have had some pretty strong disagreements when arguing religion, and, like all of us, including me, she can come across as whiny and martyrish. Look at this GD thread from less than two weeks ago. I don’t know what she wrote to her elder or her pastor, but, I regret to say, it is entirely possible she didn’t make the best impression. I do realize, by the way, that my own behaviour in that thread wasn’t exactly perfect, either.
It really is a shame. I admit to having problems with Christians who appear to be condemning everyone and everything in sight because, despite the Bible and Book of Common Prayer sitting next to my computers and the ton of choir music I need to rehearse, I still feel like they’re condemning me. My relationship with God, with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is as deep, personal, intimate, and strong as any person out there who includes Jesus in every other sentence, yet it doesn’t fit what I’ve seen of the fundamentalist model and my views, shaped though they are by my reading of the Bible and what God has shown me, do not fit theirs. I’ve been called “un-Christian” because of that. If this board is tough on nebulously defined fundamentalist or conservative Christians, it’s because more than one of us have had less than pleasant experiences with them. For those of you who are regulars in religious debates in GD, how many times have you read someone say you can’t be a Christian if you accept evolution? I’m afraid that if vanilla leaves this board for too long, she’ll just drift further into that model. I would hope some good will come of that, but, given past history, especially the way some people have treated her in the past, I’m not so sure. I offer this thread from late last April. Be warned, folks, it’s a trainwreck of the first order.
vanilla, I’ve been assuming throughout that you’re reading this. I genuinely am sorry this whole mess happened, and it shocked me as much as it shocked anyone else here. I do, however, ask you to please think of the consequences before you put something in writing. I realize this is advice which perhaps I should have heeded, too, but I do realize writing this may make you angry with me. That’s not my intent.
With regret,
CJ
I won’t defend what vanilla did. As others have said, TubaDiva made a sound judgement call in imposing a temporary ban.
The SDMB play a much large role in vanilla’s life than for most of us. Really, it does. A permanent ban here would take away one of the few outlets she has to socialize with the outside world – both cyberspace and meatspace. No doubt she’s reflecting a lot about the events that led to her suspension, and we can only hope she’ll learn from it.
I can be impulsive, too, and a couple of times in the past my actions have gotten me into trouble with the mods. Any time there’s a banning that results from more than being just a jerk, I try to learn from it. I hope we all can take a lesson from this, not just vanilla.
Due to information I have just obtained (and which I will not disclose), I hereby withdraw my criticism of Tuba. I should have known better. I apologize, dear.
I don’t doubt for a minute that this is true, but I don’t see why that should be considered when deciding whether the ban should be permanent. Perhaps she should get, like, *a job? *maybe some friends?. If she can’t find either, perhaps this will be a “wake up call” to her in that maybe her behavior is the same IRL as it has been here. Which might preclude her having either of those things. In either case, it is not the responsibility of the SDMB to make sure a poster has “outlets”.
It would be nice, but since vanilla never seemed to learn from her mistakes on a permanent basis before, I have grave doubts that this will be the case.
[sarcasm] Well, shit. And here I was thinking that this was the first time I saw a thread where it would be appropriate to express my opinion. [/sarcasm]
Fact is, I didn’t really come to the conclusion that she is a loon until earlier this year. The Snark stuff was bad, she got reproved and responded by changing from outward attack to subtle “poking” and he was the one who finally snapped. Not that I blame him, I don’t even know them and I could see what she was doing. Poor guy finally had enough. BUT her behavior could be seen as being in the “letter of the law” while not in the spirit intended.
No, it was watching her change her mind back and forth ten or eleven times, shitting all over whoever she was currently not in agreement with, then changing her mind and being “oh-so-sorry” until a couple of months down the road changing it back again and starting all over again. It was watching her respond to people who tried to “reason” with her, which was frustrating enough to READ, let alone respond to and I tip my hat to anyone who tried. One day someone said something along the lines of “You know, vanilla, I’m not sure even YOU know what you believe” and I said to myself “Note to Self-- truer words were never spoken. The lady is a loon, kindly disregard all posts by vanilla in the future.”
And hey, Buddy? I know you think you are some kind of godlike icon around here, but I daresay most of the run-of-the-mill posters (like me) aren’t convinced. Even a little.
IOW, feel free to call me a jackass or anything else you want. I’d have to think hard to find anyone whose opinion mattered less to me than yours does. A windbag doth not a dirigible make. You might want to reflect on that a little.
Cheers!
bolding mine
Oh, and since I am expressing my opinion so much more freely than usual,
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Let me express my disdain for a very common problem around here, a problem that makes this place look a nasty little clique-fest.
Expression of opinion. This is fine.
Expression of opinion. Not fine. Mean-spirited. Bullyish. The kind of thing a shitbird like ffinn would say.
It’s like enrolling in elementary school three years after most everyone else. As I walk down the halls, people caution me “don’t hang out with her, she wets the bed” or “you can’t be seen with him, his daddy’s a loser” or “she got in a fight with so-and-so, she’ll do it to you if you’re not careful”.
Diane, you judgmental bitch, don’t tell me who I can befriend. So you’ve got a grudge. Good for you, but what the fuck should that mean to me? And it’s too bad, really, because with all that intellect, you insist on sullying yourself with gradeschool behavior.
Choosing friends isn’t like a job interview. Most people don’t pull a dossier to determine who they like and dislike. One day you’re going to learn that.