Variable durameter tire?!

Factual Questions
1

my bro and i were getting irritated by how often he has to buy a tire for his Vespa moped. and those tires are $120. sucks.

we already figured that these tires are especially soft (compared to car tires) to aid in more friction because there is so little surface area in contact with road with these little vehicles. that’s why they run out quicker (2000 miles!).

we realized that these REAR tires (even though we ride the Vespa like a sportbike) only get balded in the middle, while leaving plenty of tread on the outer edges. THE REAR TIRES ONLY.

QUESTION: is there such thing out there somewhere as a Scooter tire that has car-tire-like rubber on the center of the tire (where i would rather trade-off friction for durability) and soft rubber on the outter parts of the tire for when i need friction for cornering?

keep in mind, this is just for the rear tire. the front does not wear out as quickly AND i actually do need friction on the front-middle (predominantly) for braking.

2

You could do it but it would corner like a roller skate wheel on ice. That soft tread compound is needed so you can lean and corner. Without a lot of weight to push the tire into the pavement, the rubber has to be soft to grip. It would be like driving on ice all the time.

Best bet is to find a place to buy the tires cheaper. And check the pressure, might even be running the pressure too high, whoch would make them wear in the center lots faster.

3

you are wrong.

when perfectly upright, you do not need hardly any traction (keep in mind this is not a juiced up bike). the only time you would find yourself “like skating on ice” would be when you are slightly tilted… at which point you would not be riding on the “hard” part, but the soft, gripping part of the tire.

that’s the whole point of the tires i am looking for.

i am envisioning a series of about 5 different coefficeint of friction layers to these tires, with the softest at the outer edges… pretty cool idea i think. at first glance it seems like it wouldn’t work, but i think it would if done right.

4

Billy Rubin: i’m sorry, you are not wrong, i think you just misunderstood my post. please, read it again and tell me what do you think.

5

Dual tread motorcycle tires do exist, like the Bridgestone Spitfire S11, though I don’t know if any of them fits a Vespa. I’ve also seen them referred to as “twin tread” or “dual compound.” The same idea is also used on some bicycle tires.

6

I misunderstood your post? I think not.

Go drive your vespa a bit. Tell me if you lean way over during turns. You don’t? Of course you don’t, you can’t. You can’t lean that bike over to 40-35 degrees like a hot sportbike, it just doesn’t go fast enough. In a normal turn you’re leaning to maybe 70 degrees, max, at which point the center portion of the tire is still firmly on the road, and if it’s too hard, it’ll slide out from under you.

The Spitfire tires scr4 mentions are made to do that sort of thing. On a hot bike that can lean way down in a turn- if you think about it, the bike has to be generating about a lateral G, so the bike can lean over 45 degrees, balancing the natural G of the earth with the manufactured G of the bike in the turn. And yes, it’s a great idea, but I doubt anyone is going to start doing it for your vespa. If I’m a tire manufacturer, do I make a good tire that will last four times as long as a tire I already make? So I can lose 75% of my own income on a tire that lasts that long? on a market as small as scooters/mopeds? Think not.

Reread my post- there I gave you the best advice you’re going to get; find a better place to buy those tires.

And try not to be rude- a little more courtesy and a little less “you’re wrong” goes a long way here.

A google search immediately brings up this page lists several replacement Vespa tires, the most exepensive one of which is 24 bucks. As you don’t say which size your tires are, I don’t know if yours are on the list, but it might be worth checking out.

b.

7

Your Vespa is obviously not smoking rear tires because of its tremendous horsepower. It’s mostly weight bias. You, and perhaps your passenger, are sitting right over the tire. Are you doing most of your braking with the rear brake? Don’t do it that way. The laws of physics mean that weight shifts off the rear onto the front during braking, so your most efficient braking is done by the front tire.

8

not being Mr. Knowitall, but i don’t think anybody can tell me anything about this vespa physics subject that i don’t already know. weight bias is indeed the issue here, but not braking. i never use back brake. all i am asking is about tires on the market, such as the Spitfire.

Billy Rubin: my vespa goes 75 mph. it is a 150cc w/ CVT. it’s a big scooter not a moped, that’s probably where we are misunderstanding each other…

i get below 45 degrees around turns with this bike going anywhere from 30 to 60mph w/ knees close to ground. with the tires i envision, the bike would not know any difference at these said angles, because the tread would be same softness in either case.

***and i would be able to get below 45 degrees with a normal 30mph max speed scooter, so long as the turn is tight enough, right?

*** the reason why i would be willing to pay more for this radical type of tire is to save on installation costs and it would no doubt last as long as two tires at least. i would venture to say it would not cannibalize my earnings as the manufacturer, but that is another subject.

my bro’s idea must be pretty good, because the product is out there!

thanks for the link, any scooter links? my guess is probably not but who knows…

by the way, the reason i am making a big deal about saving money on tires is that it takes $140 per month to maintain this little beast, all costs included. my bro is looking for any way to reduce these costs, tires being the main issue ($60 a month, 12k miles per year).

scooter = cheap transport right? not with this one. save gas? who cares, it’s only 15% of total maintain costs. Help!

9

The main reason rear tires wear in the center is because the rear tire is pushing the bike. If you go 75 mph on a scooter, the force that is overcoming all of that air resistance is being provided by that thin strip of tire in the middle of the rear. It’s like you are constantly using the rear brake, but it’s the rear anti-brake.

Drive a bit slower, with more gentle accelerations, and you’ll see the tires last longer.

10

Well, if you want good information, you have to give good information. In your first post, you begin by saying

then in another post

So which is it? a moped, or not? if you had given a model, or even a tire size, it would be easier to find anything, as is, without this info, it’s fairly hard.

I know scooters will go 75 mph, but hell, there are bicycles that will do that. (granted, they’re not common). Still, it has to be a damned tight turn to generate one G. Do the math. By the way, if this is, for instance, an ET-4, if you get to 45 degrees, you’re dragging sheet metal on the ground.

Whatever the case, and whatever you’d “venture to say”, if a manufacturer makes a tire that lasts “twice” as long as a regular tire, he’ll charge twice as much. That’s the way manufacturing goes, in the real world. I’m not going to give up 50% of my income so you can buy a tire that lasts twice as long for the same money. Nobody will.

Do a search for your tire size, which if I remember correctly, is 120/70-10", there are any number of tire suppliers which might help. Not a common tire, but I’d think you should be able to buy them cheaper than 120 bucks.

Good luck!

B.