There is preaching, and then there are the cold, hard, grim facts concerning the environmental impact of animal agriculture, which, like climate change, people may not want to hear about but there it is.
But many people are consuming more and more and more meat, so the envisioned solution is, or seems to be, vat-grown meat, not (for the forseeable future) everyone going vegan.
Well there is a difference between giving your opinion while engaged in a mutual discussion on the subject and giving your unsolicited opinion while I’m eating a bacon cheeseburger.
I haven’t seen any public vegan meat shaming in a long long time. I think most people have adjusted. Also, veganism/vegetarianism is fairly mainstream, so no one feels a requirement to comment on it. I’m neither, but more than a week can go by before I eat any meat at all. I love edamame as a snack (and so do most toddlers I’ve found), I’ll eat tofu- or seitan-based meat substitutes in dishes (never as themselves), and if the dish is tasty, I’ll eat it again. But, then, I’ve never been an especially picky eater.
It’s not a political issue for me, but I do have health/environmental issues in my head now when I do my grocery shopping.
I love tofu but for some reason people assume I order it for reasons. When I order General Tso’s Tofu and a Spring-roll, the waitress will tell me that the spring-roll has pork in it. Umm, yeah? Good.
Hey, Larry. Good advice. I’m sure the same could be said about SDMB, but this place has utility, (education, learning about using scrutiny, asking difficult questions that may not have a clear answer).
I should not have been posting at that time. I was genuinely curious about this topic, but I was really out of it, and not in the 'self-induced, fun" way. I’m actually surprised where I did make sense, in this thread, because I really have difficulty’s expressing myself while clear-headed, let alone in space.
Ok! So, to answer your question: I no longer know or talk to this person. Our relationship was complicated and I can’t be objective while describing it, or be thorough enough. They had a very young child I fell for, unfortunately, and it ended weird. I believe I tried once on here to attempt to explain it. (I suppose one could try to look it up, however, it’s best for me to just move on as much as I possibly can. And it’s bias, extremely condensed, missing context, and even significant information).
Just to be absolutely clear, here, because people can make assumptions online, no one’s in danger, (or ever was). It just really effected me for a very long time, and because of that, I’ve had to work on building at least some resistance in thinking about the situation. I would never contact them. I really try to avoid their online presence.
Suffice to say, I made a mistake in my altered state, and looked at their Facebook account, and… they’ve still got some spicy takes, apparently. Much of their page was as I explained. A lot of it is memes, from various Facebook Groups, disparaging people who partake.
I don’t feel ‘attacked,’ or anything, as a meat eater. I was genuinely curious if their disgust or aversion to people who eat meat is at all valid. The fact that people you were extremely close to, can change so much, without any of your influence, (or their’s on you), that bummed me out. Best thing for me to to do now, is play some video games.
I don’t mind this thread going on, if anyone thinks it serves a purpose. There might be more people wanting to address the subject or add something. Just wanted to explain. I’m not going to go nuts if reminded of this mess. I’ve also admitted to more embarrassing and/or personal things on here.
Who did you mean to reply to? Since I am not Larry!
Oh geeze. Sorry Jackie. Not sure how I confused things.
Heh, guess it’s good I checked in. Yeah, arguments here are almost as toxic as they are on FB. Not quite, since this place has decent moderation, but almost. Not that I don’t take part, but I’m trying to do better.
I guess you might consider them a flavour of sentimentalist or health nut, but religious/cultural vegans, to me, are a different, 4th type. Like some Jains, Rastas and Buddhists.
Wow I missed this, this is a crazy take.
People who don’t eat meat for ethical reasons are not insane people who see animals as “furry people”; they just don’t like causing unnecessary pain and suffering…which is the same as 99.9% of people…
I mean, just a couple of days ago here in the UK we had uproar as video was released of a police car ramming a cow. We’ve had previous scandals with things like the woman who threw a cat in a wheelie bin. People do care about animals’ well being. They just…manage to have a separate set of rules when it comes to meat and dairy.
It’s interesting that you raise the “rationality” side of this. Because, even when I was a meat eater, I was aware I couldn’t defend it rationally. My excuse was basically “it’s too difficult”; that I was too busy, and my protein and other requirements made it “virtually impossible” to cut meat. Then, one day, I stopped lying to myself.
I’m sure I’ll now be pigeon holed as a “militant” vegan. But I’ve never talked about my veganism unsolicited, and in everyday conversation I change the subject.
I could have written this. At a certain point, I could no longer rationalize the horror of factory farming, and so I don’t.
I also agree, I think the large majority of people are very ethical regarding the treatment of animals, with a carve out for farming. That was certainly me. I would have been outraged over the mistreatment of a dog, but when I became aware of the misery and suffering endured by animals destined for slaughter, I managed to justify it. Until I couldn’t. “If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian.” I believe that’s 99% true. People are basically decent.
And I never volunteer my thoughts out in the wild. Who am I to lecture? One last thing I’ll add: In conversations like these, where people have shared sincere beliefs for why they no longer eat meat, almost invariably someone feels compelled to share a “fuck you” comment. Some form of, “Yuk, yuk, meat sure is awesome, more for the rest of us if you don’t partake. Bacon, bacon, bacon! Amirite?” That’s at least as assholish as vegan militantism.
Yeah, and it does not follow that you must believe an animal to be the equivalent of a human to have compassion for it. I suspect most animals aren’t capable of suffering at the level humans do. That doesn’t mean their unnecessary suffering shouldn’t be avoided.
Personally I’m a mess. My husband had to swat a bunch of flies today and I felt some guilt over it - he was only doing it because I have a hard time killing bugs. But at the moment, I eat meat. I’m in the process of reviewing and revising my ethical behavior with regard to living things. I’m not sure where I’m going to land.
I mean, as a (now reduced- but still active) meat eater, there’s nothing you said that I don’t agree with. I’m so excited for lab grown meat (if it’s ever allowed to comeq out). I got into a ridiculous argument with a friend about how “healthy” it would be compared to the “real” thing, I think it’d be the same, if not healthier, and he claims it’s “disgusting”. I said; “there’s literally no shit in it, and no antibiotics or hormones”. He’s… a ‘character’, though, to say the least.
It seems like certain people are able to compartmentalize suffering more than others. Yeah… I mean, it’s not as if animals don’t feel anguish and pain.
I wish that, if there were a need for livestock, at least they could try to make it as humane as possible. It’s really disgusting how animalsare treated. And I honestly think vegans should be proud of themselves.
Oh, me too, for sure. I love the taste of meat. The day they offer it, that’s the day I buy it.
And now we have assholes like DeSantis outlawing the sale of lab-grown meat in Florida. Because it’s woke or something. Selling lab-grown meat doesn’t mean you have to eat it. How about mind your own fucking business?
ETA: Oh, and good on you for reducing your meat intake.
Yeah!
I’d also like to point out that, I DO believe it can be difficult life choice to make, (but largely by design, it seems). I’m sure certain people don’t have as many choices and less access than others. Would you agree? You probably know more about it than I do.
I do agree, 100%. I’ll give you one example. In my own state (Pennsylvania) there are people who only get through the winter, feeding their families, by hunting. I would do the same if in their circumstances. (Plus, that just feels more “ecosystem-ish” to me.)
I recognize that I’m blessed in that there are no obstacles making a meatless life truly difficult. So, I don’t judge anybody, but I especially don’t judge those who are just trying to get along.
Your premise is incorrect. Somewhere around 45% of all crops are grown to feed livestock. That’s soybeans, corn, wheat, etc. that are already being planted. If we just ate that stuff instead of getting the 10% caloric return to eat it in the form of animals, we’d could vastly reduce our cropland. Read up on it: beef is the most energy-inefficient food we eat. One of the single most effective ways to help the planetary ecosystem is to stop eating beef.
I don’t mind eating things with faces (I prefer the faces removed first) but the facts are such that vegans do have all the moral high ground, ecologically speaking.
The vegans who don’t eat meat because they are sentimental and squeamish I have little sympathy for, but I’m still glad they aren’t eating it, for the planet’s sake.
I’m mainly a vegetarian for preference but I have chickens and milk goats so I am far from a vegan.
If I do know any militant vegans they seem to keep quiet about it.
I’m very slow to mention to anyone that I am a vegetarian, unless it’s immediately relevant to the situation at hand. Because I’ve had too many experiences of people getting weirdly defensive, or wanting to argue with me, or mistakenly thinking I need to hear all about the very compelling reasons why they have to eat meat.
In one example I was at a work social event and indicated that I would be eating the vegetarian option. A colleague proceeded to lecture me about how eating meat was a personal choice and I should let people make their own choices. Yes, thank you for that.
I have no doubt that in some cases where people report that vegetarians have been “preachy” or judgemental, the vegetarian was not preachy at all but merely mentioned that they didn’t eat meat.
In this very thread my own main reason for not eating meat has been labelled as “sentimentalist” and caricatured as the idea that animals are furry people.
This cartoon kind of sums it up for me: Facebook
I must admit that I’m harangued far, far, FAR more often by religious types (frequently by my own relatives) than I am by vegans/vegetarians. In fact, it’s been at least two decades, if not more, since I’ve had a negative experience with a vegan proclaiming their superiority. Frankly I’ve enjoyed listening to them about their food experiences when dining at vegan/vegetarian venues. I avoid seeking out the more militant ones on the internet; you can find any variety of fanatic online, and I’m happy avoiding the tiny minority of such folks.
How nice that you’ve ascertained what the true good is, and have no truck with any of that emotional prattle.