In your haste to proselytize, you completely missed my point. Frankly, I don’t care if you eat non-vegan foods from time to time or not, and I have no interest whatsoever in “catching” you. My point was you gave advice to someone without caveat, even though your own links indicate that a significant percentage of the breads in question aren’t vegan.
My pet peeve is people twisting my points around and putting words in my mouth.
What planet do you live on? I’ve been vegetarian (ovo-lacto) for some-odd 15 years, and in my experience nearly everyone, unless they’ve been previously schooled by another vegetarian, assumes that vegetarian equals no MEAT – that is, probably ovo-lacto – not no animal products. Certainly your average Joe Schmoe has no idea what a vegan is, which is precisely why it doesn’t occur to them that someone doesn’t eat eggs, diary, honey, and the like.
If you want people do understand what you do and don’t eat, just tell them, it’s not like it takes a lot of time or effort. If I’m getting a meal from someone who’s never cooked/bought one for me before, I automatically make myself specific: “I’m vegetarian, I’ll eat eggs and dairy but no meat.” Eight extra words. Goddess help me. 
(And, unfertilized eggs as a pre-chicken? Yikes… you remind me of this freak I once has the displeasure of debating with who felt that I was actively participating in the murder of innocent children if I wasn’t trying to get myself pregnant every time I ovulated. Aaaaggggghhhh.)
Did you ask him if he masturbated? By his definition, that’s genocide.
can you say…quicksand ?
What was your point? The only thing you did is find some obscure recipe on the internet that called for dairy and smugly tell me I’d better “rethink that idea” that sourdough bread is vegan when the vast majority of the time, it is. I should have clarified and said “the vast majority of the time, sourdough bread is vegan” I’ll concede that.
This is the second time in this thread you’ve run in like a eager little beaver to discredit something I’ve said, when the first time I was simply answering someone’s question about what detox is, the answer itself being no different if you believe or don’t believe in detoxing. That belief or disbelief doesn’t change the
definition of it. For someone who honestly doesn’t give a damn what I do and think about things, you certainly seem to have a problem with my sharing these things. If you have a differing opinion fine, share it, don’t just throw out a link opposing whatever I’m saying and leave it at that. It’s getting really annoying.
That last post was directed at Q.E.D.
I believe I arched my eyebrows and backed quickly away. 
BTW, semi-hijack, but going back to dairy production… I’d understood that you only needed to get a dairy cow pregnant once to bring her milk up, and that it would stay up as long as someone was pumping it. Is that not so then? Does it spontaneously subside eventually even though there is still something (the machine) “suckling” her? I can’t see why this would happen as long as she was being fed a good diet. 
And as long as I’m hijacking… kabbes, would you feel like going into more detail about what you eat whilst on detox? I tried a fruit fast once, for about 3 days, and was ravenously and constantly hungry by the middle of day 2. I can’t even imagine trying to lengthen it to several weeks.
It won’t go on indefinitely, just like a human wouldn’t produce milk indefinitely because someone kept sucking. The cow has evolved to only produce milk for its young for as long as that young is still a calf. If the cow doesn’t get pregnant 18 months to 2 years after giving birth, it will stop producing milk.
Eventually the cow’s body knows that the offspring has reached maturity or that the normal amount of time has passed for a calf to reach maturity, and that milk will stop being produced and the cow will be ready to get pregnant again.
Most simple bread recipes I’ve used are vegan. Flour water yeast sugar oil. Bread really isn’t a challenge to buy or bake vegan, unless you throw in a gluten allergy - then I stop by the co-op and buy it. Quick breads are different, but yeast based breads often don’t contain milk or eggs. However, a lot of vegans I know don’t eat refined sugar, then bread becomes more challenging to buy - no honey, no refined sugar, and you need to get it from the co-op or bake it yourself. Gluten free is also a challenge and easier from the co-op - as I can never remember which grains are gluten free.
Most of the vegetarian and vegans I know are co-op shoppers - and co-op shopping makes vegetarian, vegan, macrobiotic, organic, etc. much easier, as most co-ops (at least here) cater to less mainstream diets. Also, they do almost all of their eating out at a handful of locl restaurants that also cater to less mainstream diets.
However, the only sourdough starter recipe I’ve used is milk and flour - so I don’t think that is that obscure. Lezler’s own starter link had two recipes requiring milk - plus an info link that talked about the efficiency of using milk to attract the bacteria necessary for starter. Bread in general may or may not be vegan and anyone who cares should read the label.
I’ve also noticed that some of my vegan friends are obsessive label readers and pretty militant about not getting animal products into their bodies. Others are vegan under the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, especially eating out or over at friends - where they will assume that basic bread is vegan and that their french fries have been cooked in vegetable oil.
Goodness, I might need an “Ask the detox freak” thread at this rate!
OK, here’s a typical meal:
Put a couple of tablespoons of fresh vegetable stock in a wok and heat. Add chopped onion and some of the following, depending on what kind of meal you’re making: garlic, ginger, dried ginger, chilli peppers, paprika, cayenne pepper, etc.
Cook for a couple of minutes.
Add some sliced or chopped vegetables, e.g. courgette (or zucchini, I think you may call it), carrot, broccoli, aubergine (eggplant?) or whatever else you fancy. Cook for a couple of minutes.
Maybe at this point you want to add some lentils or other pulses.
Add a tin or two of tomatoes and bring to the simmer for 10 mins or so.
At this point, add chickpeas if you’re including them, lemon/lime juice/zest if you’re using that and any herbs you plan to use (fresh or dried, depending on the effect you’re going for - e.g. basil, rosemary, thyme, oregano, dill, parsley, sage etc)
Serve with brown rice or wheat-free, yeast-free pasta.
See? Easy. It takes less than 30 mins to prepare from packet to plate and tastes good. It takes a week for the palate to get used to not having artificial flavourings thrown at it, but once you do food tastes much better.
Also, you get less hungry! Give it a fortnight and you’re body simply stops craving so much food. Ordinarily I end up snacking all day on the free biscuits we get at work and I’m still permanently hungry. After 2 weeks of detox, I can eat nothing except my soup for lunch all day at work and not be hungry at all.
For snacks, you have fruit, dried fruit (e.g. dried figs) (provided they haven’t been dried using sulphur dioxide or whatever the hell it is they use), nuts, wheat-free, yeast-free bread.
Oh - soups. Soups are great. Just cook lots of vegetables in lots of stock with lots of herbs and then blend half of it. Simple.
The biggest trouble is making non-tomato based recipes. That can be a struggle.
And sometimes you’d kill for a curry.
pan
I should add though: yes. After about a week, you’re incredibly hungry! That’s the worst point. It’s better from there and, as I say, after 2 weeks you’re not at all hungry. After 6 weeks you don’t really want to stop as you feel so good but after about 8-10 weeks you are seriously bored with the paucity of choice.
At that point I tend to struggle on for a week or so but then give up and retoxify, shall we say, for 3-6 months. And let me tell you this: unless you’ve deprived yourself of curry for three months, you have no idea how good it can taste…
Obviously the best idea would be to live your whole life eating well but not so obsessively as the detox. But I like my chicken saag and pizza too much to give it up, so find this a reasonable compromise. YMMV.
pan
The OP does have a point. IANAV, but when I started working out, and used to read the muscle mags, I would see the term “ovo-lacto-vegetarian”, which meant a dairy-and-egg consuming vegetarian. So if someone said “vegetarian”, I assumed they meant strict vegetarian (=vegan).
Oh, well, Kabbes, that doesn’t really sound like the detox I’m thinking of-that just sounds like you need to cut back on junk food and processed stuff and eat good, simple food. If that’s a detox, then that sounds good.
Howyadoin,
I’m thinking of using this thread as part of a study attempting to disprove that consuming hormone-laden animal products increase aggression levels in humans. Man, this is more fun than a Libertarian Party convention!
Can I be a ovo-lacto-pisco-chickeno-nacho-Oreo-vegetarian? Cool!!
…but if you serve me rice…
I’LL CLAW YOUR FUCKING EYES OUT!!!11!!1!!
-Rav
Well now I’m curious. Guin, what kind of detox are you thinking of?
FTR, here is a list of some of the things you have to cut out on the detox:[ul][li]All meat. Yes, that includes poultry, fish and any animal protein.[/li][li]All dairy. Yes: milk, cheese and yoghurt.[/li][li]Eggs and anything made from them.[/li][li]Wheat (which is the cereal crop that we’re not so good at digesting. Corn and rye, for example, are still fine though)[/li][li]Tofu, quorn and other microorganism and soy-based food[/li][li]That includes anything made from yeast, folks.[/li][li]Additives of ANY kind. Even if they claim to be “natural” (yeah right). Look at the ingredients – if you don’t recognise each of them as a proper food, play it safe. This is tough - you would not believe how many foods add “maize starch”.[/li][li]tea, coffee and other stimulants[/li][li]alcohol and other depressants[/ul]Basically, you just want to eat organic, wholesome foods that your body will thank you for.[/li]
I finished one about a month ago. Right now I’m glad I’m not on one!
pan
Forgive me my ignorance, but I thought detox meant the removal of toxins.
How would cutting out fresh wild Alaska King salmon help in this?
Is this a new(nu,noo whateva) -age thing?
Fish is known to contain trace levels of mercury due to water contamination. IIRC, mercury is one of those things that never flushes out of your body, so you want to eat such things sparingly anyway.
(Whisper it: To be honest, I’ve never really been convinced by the cutting out of fish).
Saying that, too much meat is very bad for your digestive tract and your state of health generally. Too much red meat, for example, means more than about one steak a week. I’m not sure what constitutes too much fish, but presumably there is a limit for that too.
There’s a load of new age claptrap surrounding detoxing, so it’s hard to get through to the heart of the issue. Detox fundamentalists will start talking about how the whole body’s health is derived from the colon and suchlike and before you know it facts are distorted by all kinds of dodgy claims. Don’t let that stop you though – the fact is that removing toxins from your body (both of the chemical and the plain old “body can’t handle so much of this” kind) makes you feel pretty damn good.
pan
Sorry Kaio, I don’t know why I didn’t mention your post. Your answer is very interesting and certainly something to take into consideration. Cheers.
Well dang OpalCat. That saddens me. I try to be a nice guy then a real jerk shows me how closed minded some people can be. I might have involved myself with your website but now I don’t think I want to. You’re no doubt thinking you don’t want someone “like me” visiting your site. Well if no one “like me” visits your site then your community must be full of jerks cause I’m a nice guy and I never force my beliefs on others. I may fly off the handle on occasion in the pit or accuse the wrong person in the heat of the moment, but it doesn’t make me an idiot and posting flames in the pit doesn’t mean I am that way in real life. Apparantly there is a second type of annoying vegetarian: the stubborn, judgemental, defensive type. Yeah, so I’m also being judgemental and defensive right now, but I’m being wrongly accused so I have every right to be.