Just out of curiosity, qts: assuming you are an omnivore, do you indeed eat meat at every meal?
Hark to ruadh.
Anyway, if you really want to have a point-counterpoint on the subject, explain to me why vegetarians get the bad rap for ruining dinners when in my experience it is always (and I mean always) the officious carnivore who insists on picking a fight with the vegetarian? I mean you expect a bit of ribbing about it when you’re having dinner with your girlfriend’s dad or something, but why is it there are so many carnivores who seem to feel they have carte blanche to give vegetarians the third degree over dinner?
-fh
The only time I’ve heard of vegetarians ruining dinner is when they don’t inform the cook in advance that they are vegetarian, but just wait until everything is served up and say “I can’t eat this”.
I’ve heard a few people relate stories about this sort of occurrence, but it has never happened to me personally.
Exactly, hazel-rah!
qts–Some simple yes or no questions:
Have you ever eated a grilled cheese sandwich? Have you ever eaten spaghetti marinara? Have you every consumed split pea soup? Has macaroni and cheese ever passed your lips?
Yes, or no?
Do you have some terrible moral objection to eating, oh, let’s say, a menu that had a main dish of spaghetti marinara? Or macaroni and cheese? You mean you’ve never had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch? NEVER?
Yes, or no?
I’ll warrant that many times in your life, you’ve eaten entire meals that did not have any meat in them. Did you not mind such a meatless meal being served to you because you knew that the person who fed you that meal was NOT a vegetarian?
Yes, or no?
Or, were you terribly offended that you were not fed meat at each and every meal? Did you consider the person who fed you the grilled cheese or peanut butter and jelly sandwich to be terribly inconsiderate?
Yes or no?
Would the a grilled cheese sandwich or peanut butter and jelly sandwich suddenly be unacceptable to you if you knew that a vegetarian fed it to you?
Yes, or no? And if yes, why?
Please–they are very simple questions. I’d really appreciate you answering them.
Maybe Scylla can get through to qts…
Also, qts, you do of course understand that there are approximately 800 million vegetarians in India. For them, not eating meat is at least as strong a moral/religious/traditional prohibition as pork to a Muslim and non-kosher to a practicing Jew?
You’ve got a fight to pick, so why don’t you come out with your pit bash instead of pretending to debate.
Yes, Mangetout, I’ve frequently heard similar accounts. Strangely though as a lifelong vegetarian I have never witnessed it. Almost seems to be an urban legend, the militant vegan who ruins the meek carnivore dinner and variations thereof. The problem is that in reality, the roles are always reversed.
-fh
Indeed; I’m not by any means a vegetarian but I often pick the vegetarian option if I’m dining out with a large party (like the office Christmas do) because a) it is usually quite interesting and tasty and b) it is nearly always better presented than the hugely mass-produced omnivore food that is churned out at such events.
But… It nearly always provokes people to ridicule me; one time I chose the watercress and stilton soup, followed by roast tomato canelloni; it was beyond excellent, but the guy opposite me said loudly “do you want me to go outside and pick you some grass to go with that?” (he ended up looking really stupid when everybody realised that I wasn’t a vegetarian at all).
Pull that stunt once at my place and you’ll never ever again have to worry about the taste of the food I serve in my home.
FYI: Just because something doesn’t have meat in it doesn’t mean it’s always bland. Try the recipe I posted above, for a start at discovering this “secret.” OTOH, just because some meat is in a dish doesn’t mean it’s always tasteful.
Eek! But, if you had been a vegetarian this guy wouldn’t have looked stupid?
Jesus Christ. I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen such a case of willful obtuseness. I’m going to bash my head against this brick wall ONE MORE TIME:
(Let me say that while I am not a vegetarian, I eat very little meat; I have cooked veggie meals for vegetarians; and I have eaten meals prepared by vegetarians.)
The OPPOSITE of “vegetarian = does not eat meat, by preference” IS NOT “carnivore = eats meat AND NOTHING ELSE, by preference.” It is “nonvegetarian = meat PLUS EVERYTHING ELSE, by preference.”
It is NOT INCONSIDERATE to OMIT ONE PARTICULAR FOOD ITEM from a meal, if the person it is served to IS PERFECTLY WILLING to eat the WIDE VARIETY OF OTHER FOODS that ARE being offered.
An OMNIVORE who insists that ONE particular food item (whether it be meat, or kumquats, or what have you) MUST be served to him as a guest at EVERY meal, even though he is perfectly willing to eat the other foods available, is JUST AS MUCH OF AN ASS as the complaining vegetarians that NONE OF US LIKES.
OK. I have stipulated quite clearly the consideration issue. Now will you respond to the umpteen points and questions that I and others have raised, instead of bleating the same old line?
Scarlett,
Well, I suppose he could be one of the (very few) folks who put bacon on top of their corn flakes & milk.
It’s very simple:
If you are inviting people over to your house to eat, you should do your best to provide food that you think they will like and enjoy based on what you know about their tastes.
If your guests have any special needs or are worried that they won’t like what’s on the menu, it is their duty to inform you.
For example, at my recent crab boil, some of my guests did not like shellfish.
That’s why I also had a fine roast beef in the smoker.
If everybody is happy, than I am a fine host. If everybody is not, I take it personally.
As for the OP, it works exactly the same way. If you are having vegetarian guests make sure you have food they will enjoy.
If you are a vegetarian and you are having guests that are not vegetarians, it is your responsibility to have dishes that will appeal and satisfy your non vegetarian guests.
Since most people are not exclusive carnivores, the way a vegetarian is an exclusive vegetarian one could do this either with a meat dish, or with a vegetarian dish that appeals to the mainstream palate.
I recall a vegetarian chili I once had that I would have sworn was packed with beefy goodness.
Like I said it’s simple. A host needs to be considerate and plan for their guests’ tastes and a guest needs to let those tastes be known.
If those two things are done, their is never a problem.
Monty: Mr. S’s father used to put bacon grease on his pancakes. <barf>
Scylla: I came back to this thread to say something similar to what you wrote. But I would have added that another duty of the guest is to be gracious about eating what the host has provided. This means not complaining about foods you don’t like; not complaining that your favorite food isn’t on the menu; being willing to try new things; and eating beforehand or bringing an extra dish if you’re concerned about there being nothing that you can eat (whether by choice or not).
Let’s say you invited me to dinner, and before anyone groans about how much you don’t like me, remember this is hypothetical.
I am a meat-eating person who cannot consume large quantities of carbohydrates (which means that dishes based on rice, bread, pasta, potato, or any other kind of carb can at most be a side dish for me), I’m allergic to soy, tofu, mushrooms, and black beans.
If the main dish is a broccoli rice and cheese casserole, I can’t have it. If it’s got tofu in it, I can’t eat it. If it’s grilled portabella mushrooms, I can’t touch it.
If one of you invited me for dinner, I’d tell you these things beforehand to avoid a trip to the hospital, and ask if you planned to prepare a meat dish or should I bring my own food, because my diet is pretty damn meat filled.
I have one friend who likes to go out for lots of different ethnic foods, and I often do not know what is in them. I gave him a list of things I can’t have because I’m allergic, and he makes sure that he knows what’s in the food and that I don’t accidentally get something that will make me very sick, although he did once screw up and try to order me miso soup. I’m not going to complain if there might not be anything I can eat at someone’s house, but I’d like to know that ahead of time so I can bring food or eat beforehand.
I think we’re all in agreement with you, catsix, because most of your verboten foods are things you can’t eat because of allergies – and the OP was asking about people who omit meat by choice. And you are a considerate guest because you at least give your host a heads-up and are willing to take care of yourself, rather than expecting people to read your mind.
I have no food allergies, but (for example) I dislike mushrooms. If I were invited to dinner and the host was serving mushroom casserole as the entree, I would take a little bit and eat more of whatever else was on the table – or pick out the mushrooms if there weren’t many and sneak them onto Mr S’s plate. 
If there wasn’t enough to satisfy, I could always eat something when I got home. The point of the party would probably be socializing anyway, not playing food critic. I don’t expect the host to cater to my numerous oddball, non-allergy food likes/dislikes.
Similarly, I love ginger ale and almost always have some in my house. But I’m not going to pitch a fit and consider the host inconsiderate or myself slighted if the host doesn’t happen to have any. He’ll have other beverages available, and that’s what I’ll drink.
catsix:
If you were coming over to my house and you did your job and made me aware of your special needs, I’d simply ask what you would like me to make for you.
I don’t think we’re going to get into abortion, and I think the example I gave is both aburd enough to avoid that debate, but also on point enough to demonstrate what is silly about asking someone to do something they think is immoral that isn’t even at all necessary for the host to provide in the first place.
Scylla: And when I have people over, I do the responsible thing: I feed them food they can eat. I’m completely unaware of anyone (except, perhaps, for the mythical werewolves) in human form who can’t eat vegetables, fruits, and legumes. IIRC, some of those meat-eaters use those very same things, without meat, when they cook too!
Scarlett: Bacon grease on pancakes? Pardon me whilst I join you in barfing!
Monty, if in the unlikely event that you ever invited me to dinner, noting that I’m allergic to soy and many types of beans (not all of which I listed here), would you be offended if I brought something with me that I am sure I will not be allergic to, even if it is meat?
Monty: The really weird thing is that this man was raised apart from his brothers since age 10 or so. A few years ago, we mentioned the pancake/bacon grease thing to his youngest brother, who was a baby when the family was broken up and is now 75, and he said, “Mmmm, that sounds good!”
catsix: I’d like to respond to your question to Monty, if I may. (As I mentioned before, I’m not a veggie, but I rarely cook meat at home.) With all of your allergies, I’d actually feel better if you did bring something safe; I’d do my best to provide something for you, but obviously if I screw up it would be pretty bad for you! A friend’s daughter has a nut allergy, and I try to provide safe foods for her, after quizzing her mom about ingredients. But sometimes I goof, and Rachel has to go without. I feel better if she’s brought something she can have.