All right, all right, bad examples. My fault. But everyone else seems to be doing a good job of saying what I’d tried to. You’re obligated to provide a dish your guests can eat, given their moral/personal convictions. And unless your guests are TIGERS, they should be ok without meat.
Black445 Let’s reverse the situation: you’re a vegetarian and go to a party and there are only meat dishes on offer.
MontyAn excellent post which actually replies to my OP.
I had a cow-orker who decided to throw a holiday party for everyone at work. He is a vegetarian, but nonetheless cooked a turkey, as Thanksgiving/Christmas traditions would mandate.
He said it was the most disgusting thing he’d ever done, and he would never do it again.
Several meat-eaters were upset by this, because his turkey came out better than theirs ever did.
qts: Thanks. I try.
black455: I’ve a great recipe for Vegetarian Chili with Chocolate. Want it?
I think this is fairly simple; the equation isn’t balanced.
The reason why vegetarians don’t eat meat (i.e. killing=wrong) is not the exact opposite of the reason why non-veggies do eat meat (i.e. because we want to).
So the (ethical) vegetarian does not eat meat because he/she does not want to be personally responsible for using a product that involves animal death/suffering, if he/she cooks for someone else, then he/she is still ‘using’ the product and is still personally responsible.
qts: Several people have pointed out a critical distinction, which you seem to refuse to acknowledge. I will attempt to explain it in yet another way.
Veggie who won’t eat meat: If he goes to a party where EVERY dish contains some sort of meat product, then there is nothing there he would choose to eat UNDER HIS VEGGIE PREFERENCES (as you are so quick to point out, we are talking about a veggie by choice).
Nonveggie, who eats meat and also other foods: Here we are talking about an OMNIVORE (one who eats all types of foods), not a CARNIVORE (such as tigers, already mentioned, which eat ONLY meat). YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. A vegetarian meal will still contain foods that this person IS WILLING TO EAT. It simply does not contain one item among the many that that person chooses to consume.
Suppose I am a non-kumquatarian. I never eat kumquats. Am I obligated to serve kumquats to my guests, so that I don’t deprive them of what I have chosen not to eat? No. Just as with meat, my guests won’t keel over from hunger if they don’t happen to have kumquats at this one meal, if there are plenty of other things that they normally include in their diet.
As a vegetarisn, would it be hypocritical never to re-invite a non-veggie who does nothing but whine about how the food doesn’t meet his expectations?
Anyway, to rehash Scarlett’s statement - how different is the situation described in the OP from what happened to me just last week? -
I was invited round to a friend’s house for dinner and they didn’t include any roast emu in a single dish; they know that I like roast emu (although they don’t eat it themselves) and yet all they gave me was a load of other meat and vegetables. Isn’t is hypocritical for a non-emu-eater to withold emu from me?
Is that a question?
One more time:
a) A vegetarian can’t eat meat dishes. So, at a party where only meat is served (Really. The tortilla chips are made out of bacon, and the salsa is made out of tripe), the vegetarian would have nothing to eat. If the host knew about the vegetarian’s vegetarianicity before hand, the host is rude.
b) A meat eater can eat vegetarian dishes. At an all-vegetarian party, he will have plenty to eat, and the host is under no obligation to provide him with bacon-n-tripe.
Got it?
Monty: Hizell yeah. Though I might not be able to pry any of the Magic Chocolate Salsa outta my fiancee’s hands…
…Magic Chocolate Chili. But just try taking my tripe salsa…
Here you go, black455. I got it from the now defunct www.planetveggie.com:
If you’re using Meal Master, leave the top and bottom lines (the ones with the MMMMM in them) so that you can just import the recipe.
I’m vegetarian because I don’t believe that I should eat meat, not because I believe that everyone should cater to everybody else’s food choices…so no, I’m not hypocritical.
Besides, you don’t want me serving meat. I have never cooked meat in my adult life. I have never purchased meat. I wouldn’t even know where to begin. I don’t even know proper meat sanitation. It’d be bad scene.
Most vegetarians do not eat meat ever. Most meat eaters do eat non-meat meals without objections on a regular basis. So it is not absurd to ask a meat eater to eat a non-meat meal (which they often do), and it is absurd to ask a vegetarian to eat a meat meal (which they never do).
This isn’t to say I don’t keep meat eaters in mind when they visit. I try to serve them food that they will be familier with and that they eat on their own (pasta with red sauce, lasagne, bean burritos, split pea soup etc.) and I stay away from the more exotic meat substitutes.
If I was hosting somebody who does not eat vegetarian meals (for example, somebody on an Atkins diet or a back-to-naturist or something) I’d propose an evening out, or a potluck of some sort. I’m just not equipt to serve meat.
Yes he can, he just chooses not to. Nothing wrong with that, in and of itself, but he CAN eat meat.
The OP has mostly been answered, but a small nitpick on even sven’s post – The people I know who are on Atkins can eat LOTS of vegetables since veggies are mostly quite low on carbs. Grains are a different matter.
One vegetarian I know is married to an omnivore, and she often cooks meat items for him. I’ve been to a dinner at their house at which she cooked a turkey. Also some delicious vegetarian chili. Another will not have animal products in her kitchen because she is afraid of accidentally getting some of the animal products in contact with her vegetarian food, utensils or cooking surfaces.
I’m an omnivore, but if I were invited to a meal at a vegetarian’s house I would not be surprised if the food were in compliance with his/her eating patterns. If I felt I absolutely had to have meat (which is unlikely) I’d do the same thing I do when I have to go to dinner at my mother-in-law’s (her cooking is horrible): Pick at enough to be polite and then go for a meal more to my liking before or after.
Scarlett67 Capability isn’t the issue; consideration is the issue. And frankly, it seems from this thread that most vegetarians show scant consideration to those who aren’t while expecting their dietary preferences to be met.
I would rather not have meat dishes prepared by a non meat eater - too little practice. When invited to meals with vegetarians I usually just fill my pockets with cooked meat beforehand and add it to taste to their bland fare.
qts, I’ll provide you with a meat meal (probably salmonella laced, badly spiced and burnt, knowing my meat-cooking skills) if you can convince me that you follow the same pattern as vegetarians such as:
[ul]
You never- or only extremely rarely- eat a dish that does not contain meat. You do not eat any meatless side dishes, much less the occasional bean burrito or cheese pizza.
You find the idea of eating a meal without meat in it repugnent, immoral or otherwise distasteful. I’m fine with you simply not likeing dishes without meat in them, as long as that leads to situation number one- where you do not eat them ever.
Your anti-meatless ideals are shared by a widespread enough group of people that I can reasonably expect somebody with these ideas to show up at any given dinner party. For example, some Hindus do not eat garlic and onions. In India, it’d make sense to prepare a few dishes without, but in America my chances of running in to one- outside of a few communities- is slim. (this is assumeing you are coming to this party as a surprise).[/ul]
I doubt many people fall into this catagory. And excludeing ingredients from a dish for the sake of a guest is a wholy different thing than includeing ingredients for the sake of a guest. I’m sure you realize this.
In any case, I’m perfectly willing to make accomodations for guest who do not eat dishes without meat. Those accomodations do not include me preparing meat for them, but may well include meals out and potluck type events (as I’ve mentioned before). I get (and expect) the same treatment from people are not confident about their ability to feed a vegetarian. Although most people I know prepare vegetarian alternatives, and in surprise situations I’m happy to eat side dishes, I’ve brought my own cassorole to any number of Thanksgiving dinners and there have been more than enough times my grandparents have decided to take me out rather than try to come up with a meatless entree for me.
Let’s pretend I’m pro-life. I would never have an abortion, but I guess if you come over to my house, politeness suggests that I should give you an abortion if necessary. Right?
I think continuing this thread is pointless. It’s been explained numerous times to qts why not serving veggie food to a vegetarian is not equivalent to not serving meat to an omnivore. He has not even attempted to counter those explanations but simply repeats his mantra “you’re not showing the same consideration you expect”.
This thread should either be locked or moved, because it’s clear he isn’t actually interested in debate.
Crikey Apos - are you ready for all the worms that are going to crawl out of that can you just opened?
[sub](The analogy occurred to me too, but I was too chicken to use it)[/sub]
That is because (as it has been explained over and over) - for a non-vegetarian to be expected to cook a vegetarian meal is (at worst) a minor inconvenience, for a vegetarian to be expected to cook a non-vegetarian meal is quite possibly a violation of an important ethical principle, can’t you see that the two things are not even nearly equal?