An afterthought: My sister’s husband, among his many other fine :rolleyes: qualities (but that’s another thread), is a VERY picky eater. Not allergies, just preference.
Meat: Red, bloody, large quantities. No chicken or fish.
Vegetables: Corn and potatoes. No greens or other vegetables of any kind. Well, maybe ketchup and tomato sauce, if it’s not chunky.
Fruit: As if.
Bread: White and cheap.
No “sauces, gravies, or dips.” (This has become a family refrain.)
Nothing remotely ethnic.
Pasta: Can’t recall the rule, but I’ll bet if he’ll eat any it’s spaghetti with red meat sauce.
I forget the rest of the litany, but you get the idea.
IF I were ever to actually invite this jizzwad (who is obnoxious enough on his other merits, thankyewverymuch) to my home for a meal, And if he were to actually show up, he would be on his own. He’s a terrible guest in many other ways and I am not about to cater to him. He can stop for a cowburger on the way, and then sit in the corner and pout like he usually does (even when the food is to his liking).
Mangetout and Hazel-Rah and welcome to be introduced to my sister in law - perhaps the source of that urban legend. She will show up at a dinner party without letting the host know that she is vegan, to then complain loudly throughout the meal about the lack of items she can consume. (“What do you mean you made these veggies with butter!”) I once saw her show up at a dinner party UNINVITED to bitch and moan that there was nothing she could eat.
Most vegetarians I know are far the opposite. They let you know before they show up. They ask if they can bring something (helpful - and a guarentee that the beans are not loaded with bacon). When showing up someplace they don’t expect to have a lot of choices - they have something on the way - and I’m given to understand often have a cooler in the car with a cheese sandwich for the drive home.
qts, about half my friends are vegetarians. The other half have food allergies. So when there is a large dinner party its got to be meat optional, lactose optional, gluten optional. Despite being a meat eater, I’ve never been disappointed in a meal that didn’t have meat in it (even my sister in law - pain though she is - is an excellent cook and I’ve never gone hungry).
Scarlett Again you miss the point. Consideration is the only issue. As it happens, I sometimes do eat vegetarian. As it happens, I have had certain dietary restrictions in the past - and I still have to be careful - and could not eat vegetarian. As it happens, it seems to me that some of the posters in this thread seem more interested in defending their choice than actually answering the question and thereby showing their lack of consideration.
This thread has served its purpose, and the vegetarians should hang their heads in shame.
No, once again YOU miss the point. Did you not read my post in which I clearly outlined why omitting meat from a meal is NOT INCONSIDERATE?
Whoa there, cowboy. You’ve been mighty adamant that we’re talking about CHOICES, not DIETARY NEEDS. Don’t go changing horses in midstream.
And I’m betting that “could not eat vegetarian” means “either couldn’t eat or chose not to eat some particular, traditionally vegetarian ingredient or combination thereof” (as with catsix’s tofu allergy, rather than “can eat or prefer to eat MEAT AND ONLY MEAT.”
If you hate vegetarians and/or what you consider “scary vegetarian food,” then come out and say it. But don’t be calling US obtuse.
All you’ve show is that whoever taught you logic should hang their head in shame.
You define people as meat-eaters, but not as omnivores. Why is that? If I define myself as a pork rind eater because I really like pork rinds, does it follow that you should have them ready for my eager comsumption at every social function?
No, and the reason is that you don’t define people’s eating habits by what they can eat, but by what they cannot eat. If you have dietary requirements requiring red meat, that’s one thing, but I’m afraid that your concept of “consideration” is lost on me.
qts: you say you’re a meat eater. But do you eat dog meat?
Many cultures around the world do, and have no qualms or taboos about it like we do. If a dog eater comes over to your house, are you being a hypocrite by foisting off your non-dog meat eating sensibilities on them? Assume they make some non-dog choices available to you when they throw a party; shouldn’t you make some dog choices available for them?
No, you shouldn’t, if you have objections to serving dog. Just because other people eat it doesn’t mean you have to serve it. People who object to meat aren’t being hypocrtites by not serving it any more than you are by not serving dog.
I have a couple of friends that are swingers and like to throw parties where everyone gets nekkid and screws one another. My wife and I aren’t polyamorous, so when we go over to their house, they stay clothed and chaste for the evening, out of consideration to us.
I’m a little worried about my social obligations for the next time I invite them to my house, though…
Daniel
voting qts’s thread for the Worst Great Debate Ever. Take that, december!
Maybe this thread has indeed run its course, but I am still confused about the OP. qts, are you suggesting that meat-eating is an ethical choice for certain individuals? That is, do some people feel that it is immoral to eat non-meat dishes, and that therefore it is a moral offense to offer them vegetarian food?
That would have to be the case for you to be able to equate a vegetarian’s request for meat-free dishes and a meat-eater’s preference for meat. Note that for most vegetarians, it is not simply a dietary preference as it is a genuine belief that it is morally wrong to kill animals for food (it’s not the meat in itself that upsets most vegetarians so much as the process by which it was obtained).
It’s conceivable that someone could refuse to eat certain vegetables because of ethical problems with the way they were produced–for instance, you might boycott California grapes as a way to express support for striking grape-pickers (a là Cesar Chavez).
But this would have to do more with the purchase of California grapes than the consumption of grapes in themselves, so even that analogy doesn’t really hold here.
I really think Scylla has answered your question. A good host should be conscious of his or her guests’ dietary needs, while a polite guest should express any particular needs to the host before the party. If a vegetarian waits until the dinner to announce to all assembled how disgusting meat is, that person is out of line. However, the host should be sensitive to any needs that are communicated to him or her before the party–if they are told that someone is a strictly vegetarian Hindu, and then they proceed to serve a slab of beef with no alternatives (not even a salad dish!), then the host is being quite ungracious.
However, the scenario that you’re imagining–a vegetarian host who fails to serve a meat dish even though their guest is a strict carnivore (who is somehow morally offended by the very offer of vegetarian food)–is just absurd.
Quite possibly so. He certainly would have been every bit as much an ass, but without a punchline that happened to frame him as the butt of his own lame joke, he might well have escaped looking stupid, yes.
I happen to love meat dishes, and cook them all the time. But sometimes I happen to make dinner and the meal happens to contain no meat whatsoever. I might be making spinach quiche, or tofu stirfry, or falafel pitas, or artichoke heart pizza, or bean tacos, or spaghetti marinara, or grilled tomato and cheese sandwiches. I have invited no vegetarians over to my house to eat these meatless meals, I’m eating them myself.
So have I been inconsiderate and hypocritical towards myself? Have I been rude to myself by not providing myself with meat? Where exactly is it written that a meal MUST contain meat to be a real meal? EVERY meal must contain meat? Really?
I would not think of providing a meatless meal to any guests who are obligate carnivores. My housecats get meat, any visiting dolphins get meat/fish, any visiting Kzinti get meat fresh and raw, no vegetables for them. But no human has ever been damaged by a meal that failed to contain meat. It is not a failure of manners to provide human guests with meals that do not contain meat. It may be a failure of manners to provide them with poorly cooked tasteless inedible kibble, but it would be bad manners even if the kibble contains meat.
catsix: Actually, I would be offended if you brought meat into my home. I would also be offended if you brought (drinking) alcohol unless that alcohol were to be used solely for cooking. I, on the other hand, would appreciate your telling me about your food dangers and would endeavour to make something which you could enjoy with the rest of the crowd.
qts: Try to keep up with your own OP and your own comments following it, okay?
Sorry about that. I thought my original post was so obviously untrue that it didn’t require a smily face. Maybe in the US people do walk around with pockets full of cooked meat. In reality if I go out for a meal with vegetarians I suggest a vegetarian restaurant rather than subject them to the generally lame vegetarian alternative at other places. In fact I eat indian or pakistani vegetarian at least once a week.
Cool, don’t ask. Now, there’s a famous vegetarian recipe in Monterey that also serves meat dishes. The thing they’re famous for is the vegetarian options.
As to carrying cooked meat in the pockets: there’s stuff called jerky here. Some folks like the stuff. Go figure.
