Vengeance is mine, so sayeth the Lord...

Let’s say that wrath wrought by vengeance is a sin. Would the instruments of God’s wrath, the people wreaking havoc, be considered exempt as the left hand black of God with Andrew admit, or are they just BBQ in the pits of hell?

I remember my first experience with tequila.

So that’s what that’s like.

I’m not quite sure what you are saying, or what tequila has to do with anything, but if “wrath wrought by vengeance” is a moral wrong, then it’s wrong for everyone, including God’s followers and God as well. On the other hand, if you mean “sin” as in “against the will of God”, then the answer is dependent on God’s feeling at the moment. In that case, it’s a sin if God says it is, and not a sin if God says it’s not. Since God is silent, you’ll have to wait until the afterlife to find out.

I recall the Hebrew Prophets telling Israel how God would bring varied Gentile nations against them for her sins, but that He would then punish these nations for their
cruelties to her- they are the instruments of God to deal out some punishment, but they go way beyond their mission & thus earn punishment themselves. I don’t have time to look up the relavant passages.

In the same way, Judas may have been the Divine tool to hand Jesus over BUT the NT indicates that his motivations were somewhat devilish. (No, I don’t believe the “essentially noble Judas” theory.)

I was thinking, something just a bit more lysergic.

If you can type at all while tripping you didn’t take enough.

I used to know the Official Catholic Answer to the OP, at least as much of it as I can decipher, but can’t remember it. “Kill them all. God will know His own,” keeps blocking it.

There are exceptions I’m sure, but if you’re talking about Moses, David, and Mace Windu et al, then I believe they are granted sin-free status for the seemingly-immoral things God told them to do.

As to why an all-loving, ever-constant God would do or even sponsor such destructive acts of violence, that’s a much larger and complicated question. It has to do with many many things, each thing having questions of its own. If you want a detailed and well-researched, albeit biased answer, my best advice is to find a Jesuit priest. That monastic order is required to be edumacated highly, so he should be able to answer your questions satisfactorily.

I can give a little food for thought, I suppose. It has to do with the fallen nature of man, and God’s inability to co-exist with sin, sin being any act of the will that leads one self away from God. God and not-Godly cant exist in the same place. So, before Jesus changed the ballgame, the result of sin was death. God is not a huge fan of death, death having a complex relationship with sin, but anyway, because He is infinitely Wise and Just, sometimes this Wrath was a way of dealing with concentrated packs of sin. In other words, when a population became too corrupt, God, in the fashion of Raz Al-Ghul, unleashed holy hell on the populace.

Another way of thinking about it is to think, “God works in mysterious ways,” close your ears, and shout LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA LA. It’s a lot easier and wont give you a headache.

WTF? :confused:

The sin is we humans taking it upon ourselves to do something reserved only for God - the right of vengeance. God has the absolute right to it and everything for that matter.

Nope, we have at least as much right as any god; more so, since we are judging our own kind from a human perspective. And God doesn’t have the “absolute right” to it or anything else.

Before the underlined passage will fly, you first have to demonstrate that judging (only) your own kind does vest you with any kind of superior moral standing, which at present is just another unfounded assumption.

All I know is that if my god of choice told me to sacrifice my firstborn at the alter as a proof to my servitude, I’d tell him/her/it to take a flying leap (in not so many words) and never turn back.

Arguably, Der Trihs any omnipotent being would have all kinds of right to judge us, especially if he created us. At that, we would WANT him to judge us because he knows everything.

But… for THAT argument to fly, somebody is going to have to convince us that God IS omnipotent and DOES judge us, based on some set of universal rules (that he would know, being omnipotent). Not surprisingly, the Christian argument is the Bible IS that rulebook…But then the Muslims think the Koran is that rule book… Jews follow the Torah, And the … you get the point.

And so we’re left with an unconvincing proof of the existence of such an omnipotent being, and our best recourse is to use our sense of judgment and personal morality to decide what to do with our fellow man.

Why the hell does your god need “the right of vengeance”? He can’t be harmed, and if anything does go wrong, he just twitches his nose and everything is right again. It would be like me exercising my “right of vengeance” against an ant that dared cross my path-I could do it, but not without looking like a monomaniacal fool.

Answering the question in the spirit it was asked (i.e. not nitpicking over the logical validity of the idea, or the factual veracity of religion, etc), what happens is that in the great big ineffable plan, the instruments of wrath may be acting to their own detriment, but in a way that is completely valid and appropriate to them, according to divine justice for them - by another facet of the same plan.