Vice Presidential Debate Thread

Thursday, October 11, 2012, 8:00pm–9:30pm CT (9pm EST)

This one will be interesting.

Biden is a decent speaker, but will he tell the truth? Will he stumble or even firmly chew on both of his feet at the same time?

Will Paul Ryan tell the truth? Or will he be Mitt on Steroids?

Place yer bets. Hide your children and elderly. Place your sanity in a lead lined box buried under the front porch until it’s all over.

Seth Meyers said best on last night’s SNL: “Is there anything more exciting than Joe Biden thinking it’s up to him to get the lead back?”

Will Paul Ryan tell the truth? No. He has been dishonest before and he just saw how effective the gish gallop was for Mitt Romney. Biden isn’t going to call him on his BS so I am thinking no.

What I love (sarcastically) is the liberal and progressive justification that Obama is playing ‘11 dimensional chess’ by letting Mitt lie endlessly so he can hang himself with his lies. Yeah right. Mitt’s chances of winning went from 12% to 20% due to his debate performance according to 538, I’m sure that was intentional on Obama’s part.

Not only that but the only people undecided at this point are people too ill informed to understand or care what fact checkers think anyway. So the concept that they’ll be like ‘oh wait that is a lie, let me change my opinion’ is BS to me.

I think Ryan will be very careful with his facts, knowing that the media has a narrative ready to go and is just waiting to pounce on anything they consider dishonest.

Of course, that won’t stop the left from calling him a liar anyway, based on partisan interpretations that both sides differ on. They’ll turn a philosophical/economic theory difference in point of view into a ‘lie’.

On paper, Ryan should mop the floor with Biden. In reality, it’s hard to call because there are so many factors at play. With Biden being a lot older, if Ryan gets aggressive it might come off as disrespectful or bullying. Or, it could make Ryan look too young and inexperienced. Biden has a high likability factor with many people, which could work in his favor. On the other hand, Sarah Palin set the expectations bar for Republican VP candidates pretty low, and Ryan could benefit from that.

The biggest risk from the Republican perspective is that Ryan will choke under pressure. This will be his first time in a national debate in front of a massive audience.

Either way, it’s sure to be an interesting debate, and probably entertaining as hell.

I spent the weeks leading up to the first presidential debate trying to convince people that no, Obama has actually never proven to be a great debater, and Romney by comparison has won many more debates than he has lost. People’s misplaced expectations though turned a minor win on the scorecard into the biggest blowout in the world.

Now I’m warning anyone who underestimates Biden based on his “gaffes” to check their expectations at the door. Biden is everything Obama isn’t in debates. His body langugage and demeanor read as engaged and engaging, he is the perfect mix of style and substance. Ryan is new to performing at this level, but he does seem pretty competent and I have little doubt his performance will be good as well, but matching Biden will by quite a task indeed.

My more important prediction though is that barring an epic gaffe this one will have almost zero effect on the race. After a cycle where the VP scene was where a lot of the story was, we are back to the status quo of VPs mattering very little.

Why should it be interesting?

We already know that it’s unacceptable for another Republican to win the White House. Perforce, that means that Ryan is an unacceptable prospect for the Naval Observatory.

This is pretty much a carny sideshow, and of no great importance to anything. I’m already well aware of the candidates’ positions.

I have to think that Ryan is going to come off a bit puppylike alongside Biden. Other than that, I’m just hoping for a bit of entertainment, don’t really care how I get it.

Why do you think Biden won’t call him on his BS? I think if anyone in this campaign has a ticket to go balls out berzerker it’s Biden. One, he’s not at the top of the ticket, two, less people pay attention to the veep debate, and three, people don’t need to be “introduced” to him, so he’s really got nothing to lose by being aggressive. Plus he hasn’t historically been a timid mouse, so I’m not sure why you’d make this assumption about him.

Yeah, I don’t think Biden is one to sit back and let Ryan get away with shit. Of course, I may be proven wrong. He may be forced to dig into that big bag of weed Obama apparently smoked before his debate performance.

Jaysus, a couple of politicians of Irish heritage, one a feisty newcomer and the other a wily, old lion, duking it out with words? Screw that polite tea party of the 3rd; THIS is what politics is all about! And remember that Biden, with the help of Honey Boo Boo, beat even the redoubtable Bill Clinton in the ratings during the DNC.

My bet is that the debate won’t get as many viewers as the first one and will be underwhelming. Biden will probably lose.

Spouting umbers that don’t add up isn’t “a difference in point of view”. Refusing to provide even the basics of how they might is not “telling the truth”. Chris Wallace of all people has done more than any other reporter to demonstrate that.

But keep telling yourself whatever you find reassuring. You will anyway.

Such as the pressure of being asked follow-on questions. :stuck_out_tongue:

The Presidential debate was Mr. Boring vs. Mr. Used-To-Be-Exciting.

Now, I expect the VP debate to be much different. Mr. 6-pack vs. Mr. Gaffe Machine.

Biden is going to come out swinging hard against the bullshit after all the criticism of Obama letting things go unchallenged. I think he’s well-suited to the task. Since Ryan’s whole shtick is based in bullshit I suspect it will be a target-rich environment.

I suspect the dynamic may be more like Young Arrogant Prick Who Wants To Kill Medicare vs. Old Guy Telling Him What’s What.

As an aside, Danville, KY is a great little town where I’ve spent a few summers, and Centre College is great if you like your liberal arts colleges extremely full of themselves. But I have no idea how they’ve managed to score the VP debate twice in twelve years. (They hosted Cheney-Edwards in 2000.)

I want to see Grandpa spank grandchild.

I can already see Biden’s scowled face - his stitched lips, and his downward gaze at his jacket cuff buttons.

A position he is certainly at fault for being in, regardless of how you feel about media narratives.

Actually, a Libertarian on foreign policy will play well for isolationists, “Cut the military drastically, let the world solve it’s own damn problems” a position many Americans are sympathetic too, including this Liberal.

Biden has some experience in this area, he was the Dems ‘foreign policy primary candidate’. and has some solid facts to back up his case for US foreign policy creating a better world (Bin Laden dead, Libyan freedom) and it’s really the hard-core Republicans that want to bomb Iran yesterday.

Yup, the vice presidential debates are all about releasing the Luther for both candidates.

See, I think Biden is gonna take this hands down. He’s like that grandpa that just doesn’t care. He just says whatever the hell he wants exactly how his sees it. Ryan better fill some of the holes in his party’s platforms or he is gonna look like an idiot.

Now will this debate change anything or effect the out come of the election. Na, but I’m still gonna watch it:)

Biden is going to have to be very careful about calling out ‘bullshit’, since he has a history of being caught in lies - big ones. As in claiming an entire family history that wasn’t his. He got an F in a class in law school for plagiarizing a paper. He stole a speech from Neil Kinnock of the U.K, and didn’t even change the biographical details in it. That cost him his first Presidential run.

He also claimed that he went through school on a full academic scholarship, which turned out to be a lie. He also claimed he had three degrees, when he only has one. He claimed that he graduated in the top half of his law school class, but in fact he graduated 76th out of 85.

He also has repeatedly claimed that a drunk driver killed his wife, when in fact alcohol was not found to be a contributing factor.

Biden has also repeatedly claimed to have working class roots, but his dad was a sales executive and Biden went to private school.

There a long, extensive list of the fabrications of Joe Biden. I know this board has concluded that Ryan is a serial liar because he didn’t state a 20-year-old marathon time correctly, but if Biden goes after him as a ‘liar’, Ryan will have the ammo to tear him apart. I’d be willing to bet the Obama campaign debate prep guys have warned Biden repeatedly to stay away from the word ‘lie’ or anything like it. Of course, that doesn’t mean he will.

[quote=“Sam_Stone, post:19, topic:636999”]

Biden is going to have to be very careful about calling out ‘bullshit’, since he has a history of being caught in lies - big ones. As in claiming an entire family history that wasn’t his.

Well the reference site I check says failure to properly site a law revue reference, but hey - if “whole paper” rocks your boat

According to the daily telegraph, it was one paragraph, but again - whatever:rolleyes:

I dunno about you, but yeah, I’d call a used car salesman working class

And those are just the facts that I can find reliable sources for in about 5 minutes of searching