maybe even a district by district thing. I know some districts in texas you can still use corporal punishment, some you cant tap them on the shoulder to get their attention.
What a world.
You gotta keep in mind that we’re not talking about a sweet, innocent child having a tea party with her dolls when the SWAT team busts in, maces her, and hauls her away screaming piteously for her mother, Dio. We’re talking someone who is physically violent and a danger to herself and others and needs to be restrained for her own safety.
As for whether or not teachers can restrain kids, it varies somewhat by school district. My mother has been trained in non-injurious take-down tactics, because she’s had some physically violent students who were as big as she is. She is only allowed to use physical restraint in cases of clear and present danger, and only to the extent absolutely necessary to neutralize that danger. Thus she would have been forced to take the same route as the teacher in this case–lift the kid off the table so she won’t fall or kick someone in the face, then turn her loose.
I gotta tell you, though, any of the restraints my mother’s been taught would involve muscling the kid down, just like you claim the cops muscled this kid down. I also gotta tell you that five years old ain’t a toddler in any sense of the word.
Even in my training, it was clear that restraints were only to be used in extreme situations. A child could be restraint to prevent injury to her/himself or to others but not as a means to simply stop behaviors or prevent damage to physical property. There was also a pretty short time limit on how long the child could be restrained.
Pretty close. WE would have taken her all the way to the ground, one person on each arms one on the legs, but other than that, looks like they knew what they were doing.
And since you cant use a basket hold anymore (which used to be the prefered method for little kids), either she would have to be physically held down the whole time (by at least two people), until it was resolved, or use restraint cuffs(leather cuffs on a belt). Handcuffs are less comfortable, but not going to hurt her. I know there are new techniques out there now, but pretty much the cops didn’t do anything out of the ordinary.
I suppose that explains your rabid rantings this time. You’ve got a hell of a special way of communicating. Perhaps you’d be more effective in demonstrating your ideas without all the bile and foam around your mouth. People tend to be more willing to see another person’s point of view if it seems to come from someone with a little ounce of control over their emotions.
I was actually more upset by the expressions of hostility towards the little girl in this thread than by the handcuffing. I also can’t help but picture my own little girl in that situation who barely has any understanding of what the police are, would not comprehend what was happening to her and would be terrified.
Notice I haven’t defended the mother. My anger is on behalf of the child. No matter HOW a five year old is acting, she still does not deserve to be villified like she has been in this thread.
Generally, and speaking from very dated experiance, restraint is used when a child is out of control Destroying property and climbing up on tables and not responding to verbal redirection is a sign of that. the idea being that if a kid is tearing things off the wall, next step could be something that causes injury.
HOwever she was physically assaulting the AP, so it wasnt just property.
Well, then I guess I’m still confused on what you’d have done differently. The kid was tearing up school and personal property for almost half an hour. She only stopped once the cops got there. They called the mom 3 times, and she said every time she couldn’t leave work for another hour (hour and a half?).
I’m assuming “a short time limit” isn’t an hour and a half of restrainment, so what were they supposed to do? Let her tear up the room and her office for the next hour and a half till her mom decided to come get her?
Plus, you’ve got all these “Zero Tolerance” laws now, where the school’s pretty much have to call the cops in this sort of situation by law, depending where you live.
So, what would you have done to resolve the situation that didn’t involve restraints or calling the cops(which I reiterate they might have had to do anyways by law if there’s some sort of “zero tolerance” rules in effect)? I’m being sincere here.
I’m the one with the “bile and the foam?”
How about the ones who want to slam a five year old girl’s head into a desk? Where you unsolicited advice for those people, Oprah?
Agreed.
I already said I would have used a physical restraint. No one in the school did that. I’m dubious that they weren’t allowed to use restraint to prevent possible injury.
I understand, can empathize, and respect that…but it was quite clear in the video this particular girl was well aware of who and what the cops were (she sat her little ass in that chair soon as she saw them thru the window), and seemed well aware of what was happening to her (the cop said he’d either had to handcuff her before or told her mom next time she’d be handcuffed right in the video, I couldn’t quite tell, he asked if she remembered him, so this obviously wasn’t a first occurence).
I assume your child wouldn’t have put herself in this situation in the first place.
But you said yourself you were only allowed to use restraint for a short time limit. This child was out of control for around a half hour and it was going to be another hour, hour and a half till the mother was even able to come get her. Should they have kept her in restraints for almost 2 hours? That seems far more barbaric to me, YMMV.
I don’t recall seeing anybody claiming that they would realistically want to slam a five year old girl’s head into a desk. Yeah, I know the post you’re referring to, but try reading it again without your hot-button-response mode turned on.
I mean, hell, I’d be half tempted to grab some duct tape and strap the kid’s wrists and ankles. Do I realistically think that’s an appropriate response? No. Do I have any training in approved restraining techniques for problem children? No. Do I have any clue about what I would actually do in that situation? No.
You’re making an erroneous assumption that the child’s mood would have remained elevated to the same level in restraint for the same length of time as if she remained unrestrained. It doesn’t work that way. Restraints are designed to help de-escalate thos mood levels. Usually a short restraint is sufficient to de-escalate the behavior. This girl’s behavior continued for so long because she wasn’t given any restraint.
I can’t think of a non-assholish meaning, literal or otherwise, for anyone saying they would like to slam a five year old girl’s head into a desk. If nothing else, it’s stupid in that it shows a belief that a five year old girl has any moral responsibility for her own behaviors. If a child that young has aggressive behaviors it’s either neurological or because of something “environmental” (read: parental). In either case, it’s not the kid’s fault and demonizing the kid is just senseless.
An erroneous assumption in some situations. In some situations she’d be right. There is no way to predict what each individual will or will not do. I have witnessed patients placed in restraints whose agitation escalated to the point of nosebleeds, blackouts, heart palpitations, asthmatic attacks, and one patient who bit through his tongue in rage.
There isn’t a “right” answer in this situation. There is only speculation. At this point, it just seems like too many unanswered questions to get a good idea of the situation.
…And you’re making the erroneous assumption that you know the laws, rules, regulations and procedure of a school district in another state, DtC. Stop being a choad-munching dumbfuck and accept that you’re flying off the handle like a moron and speaking out your ass-as per usual. It is quite obvious to me after watching the tape, reading the 2 related articles and listening to the teachers that this particular school or district has a pretty strict “no restraining the child” rule in effect.
Where you are it may be different and I’d hazard a guess that it most likely is. In Florida, in this particular venue, it isn’t like that.
Sam
Again, you’re operating under the assumption that the AP using physical restraint was an option, which in this day and age, shouldn’t be assumed.
Well anyways, I went and looked up Pinellas County School Board’s Student Code of Conduct. I couldn’t find exactly what I was looking for…something that says, “if your parent can’t get you, we call the cops, we’ll use physical restraint if necessary” or something along those lines, but I’ll post the link, maybe one of you can find something one way or another that outlines whether an alternative to calling the cops was even an option. Closest I found was this bit (page 13 if you’re reading it in Adobe, I guess)
(warning .pdf file)
http://www.pinellas.k12.fl.us/Planning/files/585E983476A84057B0C49E61419DFFF6.pdf
Hm, I should have read the second article earlier. =p
So it sounds like in the end, the District is at fault for not having clear written policies on exactly what to do in this situation (especially in light of the amount of school-related violence episodes the district has reported in the last year).
The two statements that as a rule teacher should not touch students, and that they can use physical restraint if the child is currently in a dangerous situation is really vague. Also, since the general rule of thumb is to not touch the students, I doubt the school staff is trained in the types of restraints DtC is talking about, which would be a legal liability to the school if employed by untrained personnel. The teacher did wrap her arms around the child a few times when she got on the table, which prompted the child to physically lash out at the AP after she was released.
IMO, the AP did what she thought she was allowed to do, and the District needs to draft some clear policies on how these situations will be handled.