Vile, Filthy RACIST Remarks-by Obama's PASTOR?

Great Debates
121

[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
What exactly do you want links to? That he said the government lied about inventing HIV? That the government knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor beforehand? That the government imported drugs? That the government gave blacks syphilis?

These are all urban legends for which there is no evidence. This guy is a nut.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=azkbkx9.hvlw&refer=us


[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the links. That’s not in context but thats not your fault. You mentioned a couple of things I hadn’t heard before.

It’s interesting that you still mention the syphilis thing considering previous posts.

I have a friend at work who is a brilliant guy and a gifted musician with impressive credentials. He’s also a kind person who will extend himself to help others. We don’t talk about politics much because he tends to be a conspiracy nut concerning that subject.

My older brother is a stellar human being although we disagree quite a bit politically since he is still a Bush supporter.

These few clips with Wright ranting are not the man’s whole life, contribution, or charecter. I didn’t like Jerry Falwell much but I’ve read that he ran some very helpful charity organizations.

It’s ludicrous and ignorant to allow ourselves to be manipulated by the media sensationalizing this crap and find Obama guilty by association. If we continue to let ourselves be steered this way then we can expect to pay the price.

I have friends and family whom I strongly disagree with on certain subjects but it does not change my affection for them or the contribution they make to my life and the lives of others. For that reason I understand Obama’s “old uncle” term.

It’s ludicrous to think Obama must not associate with anyone who ever made strong statements he doesn’t agree with. It’s immature to think those few statements encapsule the sum total of Mr. Wright and his church.
I was reading the comments from Obama’s rxplanation on Huff post and found this to be pretty dam reasonable.

You cannot be an effective president if you shut yourself off from everyone with whom you strongly disagree and everyone who makes a hateful comment about America. Hasn’t our current admin show us that? In fact it’s Obama’s willingness to listen and at least give consideration to the opposition that is one of his better qualities and one of the reasons he’ll make a better president than the alternative choices , if we don’t allow the media and sensationalism to distract us from the real issues.

122

[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee]
No, that is not “the only answer.” I have a handful of people I maintain close relationships with yet disagree with on a lot of issues. Relationships are not solely based on sharing common beliefs. They can be based on history, blood ties, even geographical origins, depending on the culture. Diogenes made a fair point about Catholics who disagree with a lot of what the Vatican says nowadays yet still identify with the church. There are many, many Catholics out there who are pro-choice and practice birth control, yet still consider themselves part of the church. Hell, there are plenty of Democrats - and Republicans - that disagree with their party on some major issues (gay rights, for example) yet still identify as Democrat/Republican.

If you’re saying that the majority of voters will think that Obama hasn’t cut off relations with Wright because “he doesn’t really disagree with Wright that profoundly,” that’s a different story, but it sounds like you’re saying there’s no other possible explanation for Obama’s relationship with Wright. And that’s simply not true.
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Exactly. This entire thread is an amalgamation of all the hate out there and differing views coming together near the end of a primary season where Obama is the clear unadulterated front-runner. And barring a Dean Moment or a skeleton ala Eliot Spitzer style in his closet, this nomination is all but cinched. I know people hate it when their horse comes in second, and they curse the winning breed but jesus people this happens all the time in politics. Love him or hate him I don’t care but stop friggin crying about Obama being in the lead.

123

[QUOTE=Belowjob2.0]
Why did Obama maintain such a long term, close relationship with someone he profoundly disagreed with? The only answer is that he doesn’t really disagree with Wright that profoundly.
[/QUOTE]

A more likely answer is that Wright made objectionable statements only infrequently, and even if Obama was fully aware of them he saw enough worth in other things Wright said and did to keep hanging around. You seem to be implying that if one’s pastor says something you object to, even once, you should immediately march out of the church and never return. Well, the pastoral relationship simply doesn’t work like that. Especially not in a liberal denomination like the UCC where you’re not expected to blindly agree with everything the pastor says.

If Obama’s campaign is significantly harmed by his relationship with Wright, I will be profoundly dismayed. It would imply that to obtain high office in this country a black man not only has to show no sign of anger over the legacy of racism in this country himself, as Obama does, but that he cannot have any relationship with anyone who does. It seems to me that’s a significantly higher bar to pass.

124

It’s less about a church and its dogma than it is about two people who have (had?) a close relationship. There’s no evidence that the UCC, or even this particular congregation under the new pastor hold the same view.

I’ve been to many charismatic Black churches, led by ministers with skillful rhetorical flourishes. But I’ve never heard a pastor use a phrase like “God damn America” or make crude references to sex from the pulpit. Guess you learn something new every day…

125

[QUOTE=Hippy Hollow]
I’ve been to many charismatic Black churches, led by ministers with skillful rhetorical flourishes. But I’ve never heard a pastor use a phrase like “God damn America” or make crude references to sex from the pulpit. Guess you learn something new every day…
[/QUOTE]

From most accounts these kinds of things weren’t exactly typical for Wright, either.

126

[QUOTE=Belowjob2.0]

Why did Obama maintain such a long term, close relationship with someone he profoundly disagreed with? The only answer is that he doesn’t really disagree with Wright that profoundly.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t know what kind of relationships you have but this is just wrong, and very wrong. Do you think really relationships are so narrowly defined? Human beings are multifaceted and you can admire and even love and respect people with whom you disagree on specific subjects.

I repeat, think of the atmosphere in Washington and how this last administration attacked anyone who dared to disagree. Do we want more of that kind of crap or do we want someone who maintains respect and a working relationship with people he disagrees with.

127

[QUOTE=Belowjob2.0]

Why did Obama maintain such a long term, close relationship with someone he profoundly disagreed with? The only answer is that he doesn’t really disagree with Wright that profoundly.
.
[/QUOTE]

I say he does diagree profoundly.

I’d say that its one of the major reasons he seeks the presidency.

To answer your question, consider the fact that Obama though black, does not share in the culture of African American perception of history and attitude towards the white race. Obama’s youth experience has very much been that of a young immigrant searching for acceptance. He’s even told us that he struggled with his identity in his youth. No doubt he was accepted by whites as a result of his positive character, but he had to be aware that he was different.

So he ends up associating with a black community and he ends up feeling their pain.He gets himself adopted into the black community which includes Wright, who he knows understands his congregation very well. But all the while, Obama is considering that he doesn’t want to get pulled down by Wright’s self destructive message, he wants to pull everyone up to where he is. Obama’s seen the futility of Jackson and Sharpton and the negative reaction of the population at large. He’s seen the great strides in favour of African Americans during the latter years of MLK and sadly, that message of hope and conciliation has been all forgotten.

I wish I could present my view in a briefer more scholarly fashion in order to advocate against the negative perception of Obama’s association with Wright but I find myself lacking in that regard. I am very comfortable however with my own analysis.

128

[QUOTE=cosmosdan]
this is just wrong, and very wrong. You can love and respect people with whom you disagree on specific subjects.
[/QUOTE]

no, this is right.
A professional politician running for president cannot maintain long term close relationships with an extremist nut.
It shows terrible, terrible judgement, repeatedly, for 20 years.
That’s okay for a private citizen; But if a politician doesn’t understand that his ability to lead the nation will be affected by who he chooses to be his mentor, he doesn’t deserve to be president.

129

[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman]
I say he does diagree profoundly.

I’d say that its one of the major reasons he seeks the presidency.

To answer your question, consider the fact that Obama though black, does not share in the culture of African American perception of history and attitude towards the white race. Obama’s youth experience has very much been that of a young immigrant searching for acceptance. He’s even told us that he struggled with his identity in his youth. No doubt he was accepted by whites as a result of his positive character, but he had to be aware that he was different.

So he ends up associating with a black community and he ends up feeling their pain.He gets himself adopted into the black community which includes Wright, who he knows understands his congregation very well. But all the while, Obama is considering that he doesn’t want to get pulled down by Wright’s self destructive message, he wants to pull everyone up to where he is. Obama’s seen the futility of Jackson and Sharpton and the negative reaction of the population at large. He’s seen the great strides in favour of African Americans during the latter years of MLK and sadly, that message of hope and conciliation has been all forgotten.

I wish I could present my view in a briefer more scholarly fashion in order to advocate against the negative perception of Obama’s association with Wright but I find myself lacking in that regard. I am very comfortable however with my own analysis.
[/QUOTE]

Well Dutch - …hold on…I agree. :smiley: Is that really you in there? Or are you some imposter posing at The Flying Dutchman??? :slight_smile:

130

[QUOTE=Belowjob2.0]
Hey, FWIW, I’ve been in the tank for Obama for quite a while now. Not just that, I’m pretty much a dyed in the wool Hillary hater. I’ve tried to talk myself into voting for her, because she’s got to be better than a 72 year old political hack with serious anger management issues. But as of yet, I’m not there. She makes my skin crawl. I won’t defend this as entirely rational, her claim of greater experience is bullshit.

I like Obama. I like his Harvard and Law Review credentials. I like his deep experience with ground level, hands on politics. I like the fact that he’s been able to win over many of the country’s most successful businessmen and political leaders, not to mention some of the Clinton’s best former advisers. I like the fact that he’s run an effective, well organized campaign. Overall, his platform is too left wing to be ideal for me, but with the mess the so called conservatives have made of things, we were in for a liberal president anyway.

But this Wright situation has legs. It will grow over the weekend and be what everyone’s talking about on Monday. It will hurt Obama seriously. No way around it.

But let’s face it, the SDMB is an assemblage of tech savvy, intellectually omnivorous people, college educated and skewed young. Obama loyalists, IOW.
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I think you’re exactly right about the skewed political demographic here on the SDMB, Bjob2.0. It’s actually rather amusing to see the lockstep defense of anything Obama says or does, associates with, etc. There is literally nothing that can be said or done by his supporters, spiritual advisors, campaign leadership, representatives, wife, or any other element of his organization for which he can be held accountable by Obamacons. It’s all a slander. In this very thread, someone used this Wright incident to accuse another poster of impending glee and gloating. So that’s the issue. LOL Not the substance of an objection, but the audacity of pointing it out. Hillary is to blame for everything bad. She’s evil, she’s a monster, she’s a liar, she’s a manipulator, her and Bill are maybe closet racists, she wouldn’t know what it’s like to be a young black man called nigger, etc. (as if Obama does)

I particularly enjoyed Wright’s comparison of Obama to Jesus Christ. I guess that complements the comparison by others of Hillary to the Devil, so things are nice and clear now. Universal mandatory healthcare, anyone? NAFTA renegotiation? Foreign policy experience that’s not out in left (literally) field? Negotiating with our ‘enemies’ as Obama has said would include AQ right? They’re our enemies? He didn’t specify countries, he said enemies. I know, I know, I’m nitpicking. It’s my fault. Never Jesus Obama Christ’s.

By the way, the issue of foreign policy experience is to compare that of Hillary’s to Obama’s. While she is accused of ‘overstating’ (and that guy by the way backpedaled from much of those comments later in saying that he thinks Hillary would make a fine commander in chief) her foreign policy experience, she could understate it by 10000% and it would still be more than Obama’s and that’s the comparison. But once again, it’s never about him.

Bottom line, WHATEVER foreign policy experience she gained from her years at the White House it’s more than Obama has. Mr. Xerox really needs to put his head down, gain some more experience and some legislative accomplishments noteworthy enough that his supporters going on shows like Hardball can name even ONE of them, and be her VP for 8 years and then ascend to the White House.

Either that or shut up and go away. The man is the inverse of Bush: eloquent where Bush is stumbling, inspirational where Bush is a self-parody (though Obama gets pretty close to self-parody and we’ll see more of that in weeks to come)…but like Bush, he’s an empty suit with positions cribbed and copied and pasted from broad, general D positions and from Hillary (his initial mentor when entering the Senate, as detailed in a fascinating Atlantic article a few months ago).

And by the way, his way of responding to the Wright issue on Anderson Cooper was to say, “I confess…I didn’t hear any of those comments. I confess…I wasn’t there.” Eight more years of deflection, anyone? Oh wait, but deflection with witty verbal ripostes and a dazzling smile! Aaah. The cockles of my heart are warmed. Three cheers for white liberal guilt. LOL

Oh, and I’m sure Wright just had those thoughts and expressed them for the first time in his life a little over 90 days ago in December. Don’t worry, Obama had no idea and besides he’s once-removed via Wright from Farakkhan. How convenient.

I’ll be on the lookout for the Weathermen terrorist connection next.

Hmm. I guess that makes me the problem if I gloat, right? :rolleyes: What a monster! LOL

131

Maybe Obama wants the news about his associations with hate-mongers out today, to distract from the other news that he lied about one of his other slimy associations.

[black preacher voice]
Can we assume this is a non-trivial speed bump on Obama’s path to beatification?

YES WE CAN!
[/bpv]

Regards,
Shodan

132

[QUOTE=Loach]

With the amount of quotes I have heard from this pastor I have a feeling that Obama must have heard some of them in twenty years and yet still went to the church. Unless he really didn’t go to church that often. So then he is lying.
[/QUOTE]
Obama says he never heard anything remotely like those statements, either while sitting in a church service or in private. I love my (now retired) Rabbi and my home congregation. The man confirmed my mother, married my parents, confirmed my sisters and me, and officiated at my mother’s funeral. But I haven’t heard every sermon he’s ever spoken, and I’ve never heard him speak an opinion privately with which I didn’t agree. That doesn’t mean he hasn’t said controversial things both publicly and privately. And if I were running for office and learned that he had, I would do exactly what Barack Obama has done; disavow those statements strongly and continue my membership with a synagogue to which I am strongly bonded. That would not make me responsible for “supporting” every word my Rabbi has ever said.
[QUOTE=Magiver]

Obama had a 20 year relation with Wright. It is asking a lot for people to believe that he wasn’t aware of his racist remarks.
[/QUOTE]
I have had a 46 year relationship with my father. I lived in the same house with him for more than 20 of them. In the first 43 years of my life I never once heard my father utter what could even conceivably be construed as a racist remark. Never. And yet, one day, after 43 years of knowing him and relying strongly on his counsel, insight and wisdom, he made a comment that took me completely aback. I never knew my own father would think something like that, let alone say it in his out loud voice. It is possible to know someone for a very long time and never have heard them say controversial or ugly things.
[QUOTE=Belowjob2.0]

Now that I’ve looked into it in more detail, Obama’s relationship with Wright approaches that of father/son, or at least doting uncle/nephew. Wright performed Obama’s marriage ceremony. Wright baptized Obama’s two children. They’ve been close associates for twenty years.

Why did Obama maintain such a long term, close relationship with someone he profoundly disagreed with? The only answer is that he doesn’t really disagree with Wright that profoundly.
[/QUOTE]
No, there’s another answer, the one he gave: he didn’t know. As I said above, it is possible. And when he became aware, he made the choice to stay with his church because the reverend was retiring.

But you would have him leave the entire church and congregation, even though he never personally heard any anti-Semitic or racially charged remarks from his now-retiring pastor. That just seems like an absurd requirement to me.
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman]

In any case, I’d like to report, no matter how damaging the Wright controversy may be for Obama, it actually resulted in changing my mind as to who should be the next president.

I was watching Obama’s reply on the issue to Anderson Cooper tonight as well as commentary on black churches in America by David Gergen and the black Chicago newspaperman pundit. Its a long story and I’m too tired to elaborate, but I now see Obama as the reincarnation of Martin Luther King Jr. and the man who will go a long way to secure King’s dream. You’re lucky to find these guys once in a lifetime.
[/QUOTE]
Ok, I know this is Caturday, but is it also Opposite Day? Is it safe to give you a hug, or are you pulling our collective legs?

133

[QUOTE=Shodan]
Maybe Obama wants the news about his associations with hate-mongers out today, to distract from the other news that he lied about one of his other slimy associations.

[black preacher voice]
Can we assume this is a non-trivial speed bump on Obama’s path to beatification?

YES WE CAN!
[/bpv]

Regards,
Shodan
[/QUOTE]

Righto. That’s one.

When asked about the NAFTA memo, he said it didn’t happen.

Then it turned out that it did happen.

When asked about his waffling Iraq position as betrayed again by his campaign telling the foreign press something different, he accused Hillary of ‘having no standing to question me on this issue.’

Another deflection.

Oh well, I guess I can’t bring it up.

I have no standing. :stuck_out_tongue:

134

[QUOTE=chappachula]
no, this is right.
A professional politician running for president cannot maintain long term close relationships with an extremist nut.
It shows terrible, terrible judgement, repeatedly, for 20 years.
That’s okay for a private citizen; But if a politician doesn’t understand that his ability to lead the nation will be affected by who he chooses to be his mentor, he doesn’t deserve to be president.
[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? So when Wright says one extreme thing Barack should have rejected everything about him 20 years ago because he knew he wanted to be president?
Please. That’s very immature and unrealistic about human relationships.
So in Washington people should not even associate with members of congress who are too extreme in their views? Once a politician is busted in some scandal {pick one of the many recent ones} we should also reject everyone who remained their friends? That’s a ridiculous and unrealistic standard.

btw my objection to that post was the that the “only reason” was presented as Barack must secretly not disagree. That conclusion is the bullshit smear machine working at directing our opinion by manipulation.

Wright may have some extreme opinions but that is not the sum total of the man. It’s immature and naive to see this video outtakes and think “this is what this guy is all about”

This guilt by association bullshit politics is something the public has to reject not embrace.

135

[QUOTE=cosmosdan]
What are you talking about? So when Wright says one extreme thing Barack should have rejected everything about him 20 years ago because he knew he wanted to be president?
[/QUOTE]

He didn’t say “one” extreme thing. I think you know that.

[QUOTE=cosmosdan]
That conclusion is the bullshit smear machine working at directing our opinion by manipulation.

…This guilt by association bullshit politics is something the public has to reject not embrace.
[/QUOTE]

Ironic given the ‘bullshit smear machine’ and ‘guilt by association bullshit politics’ that was at work on Ferraro all week.

Oh yeah, I forgot: it’s okay if it’s Obama’s side.

136

[QUOTE=9thFloor]
Righto. That’s one.

When asked about the NAFTA memo, he said it didn’t happen.

Then it turned out that it did happen.

When asked about his waffling Iraq position as betrayed again by his campaign telling the foreign press something different, he accused Hillary of ‘having no standing to question me on this issue.’

Another deflection.

Oh well, I guess I can’t bring it up.

I have no standing. :stuck_out_tongue:
[/QUOTE]

The idea that Obama supporters haven’t truly examined the man and weighed him against the other candidates is just more smoke and mirrors. I don’t see any evidence that his supporters see him as flawless and the answer to all our hopes and dreams , even though Fox has tried to imply that.

None of the candidates are perfect. Welcome to humanity. We just happen to think he’s the best choice of the three. You are welcome to disagree but this type of sarcastic ridicule doesn’t make me more inclined to value your judgment and sway me toward anyone else.

137

[QUOTE=9thFloor]
He didn’t say “one” extreme thing. I think you know that.

Ironic given the ‘bullshit smear machine’ and ‘guilt by association bullshit politics’ that was at work on Ferraro all week.

Oh yeah, I forgot: it’s okay if it’s Obama’s side.
[/QUOTE]

Ferraro deserved what she got - so did Clinton’s campaign for that bullshit.

Obama is getting it right now, ***and ** * his campaign…further signifies the exact 50/50 divide between the two that the public is having so much trouble understanding. One side has voracious fans as does the other side.

In the end, no amount of backdoor politicking is going to make a lick of difference. Clinton has a clear mountain to climb, Obama has hit the pavement running full throttle - he’s just as in it to win it as Clinton is. But he is more organized, thorough, and likable - all things that will see him through to the nomination. NO amount of past preacher bullshit will kill his campaign - as no amount of celebrity scripted racism will kill hers. They’re going to the convention…and I doubt highly she will be on top. It’s almost mathematically impossible. Hell Superdelegates from her side are jumping to his side over and over…

138

[QUOTE=cosmosdan]
The idea that Obama supporters haven’t truly examined the man and weighed him against the other candidates is just more smoke and mirrors. I don’t see any evidence that his supporters see him as flawless and the answer to all our hopes and dreams , even though Fox has tried to imply that.

None of the candidates are perfect. Welcome to humanity. We just happen to think he’s the best choice of the three. You are welcome to disagree but this type of sarcastic ridicule doesn’t make me more inclined to value your judgment and sway me toward anyone else.
[/QUOTE]

Let’s see…the idea that Obama is all smoke and mirrors and hasn’t been seen through by his hysterical supporters…is all smoke and mirrors.

Spoken in true Obama triple speak.

And yes, I know, sarcasm = bad. Hope = good. Hillary = big meanie. Obama = ‘reincarnation of MLK’ (which is rich; the man was a 6 year old in Indonesia while Hillary was debating, discussing, wrestling with, and attending MLK speeches and rallies and HE’S MLK? LOL Talk about judging a similarity based on skin color and speech intonation as opposed to, I don’t know, content of character.)

139

[QUOTE=9thFloor]
He didn’t say “one” extreme thing. I think you know that.
[/QUOTE]

Your nitpicking doesn’t address the point I made.

Untrue. This has already been discussed and put away. Personally I have little interest in letting either Ferraro’s comments or Wrights become relevant to the more important issues. They simply aren’t, and it’s a dam shame that we allow the media to steer the dialogs in this way.

140

[QUOTE=9thFloor]
Let’s see…the idea that Obama is all smoke and mirrors and hasn’t been seen through by his hysterical supporters…is itself smoke and mirrors.

Spoken in true Obama triple speak.
[/QUOTE]

Tell you what. Stop by again when you have anything of substance to add to the conversation. This tired mantra doesn’t interest me in the least.