There is also the threat of teaching the child how to think logically from another person’s perspective and to voice those thoughts coherently.
Isn’t that a bit subversive?
And does anyone really want a teenager who can argue effectively?
No, that approach is just too dangerous. I vote for taking letters away one at a time until the kid can’t talk at all.
When I tired of asking questions I began to always answer with a reverse of the question. Like in this instance. “Why not?”
When my children would whine at me the first time I would look at them confused and say “Honey, you must be whining because I can see your mouth moving but I can’t hear anything. I can’t hear whining, it’s too high of a frequency” After that I would just have to say “I can’t hear you, you’re whining”
We chose three as the magic age to give up pacifiers. I would warn them ahead of time that once kids were three the stores wouldn’t sell the parents pacifiers anymore so they better take care of the ones we already had. Eventually we would get down to one icky one and the kid would not want it anymore.
One day the kids wanted pop for dinner. We rarely had pop for dinner and I had already told them they could have it after dinner during a movie so I don’t know what was up this day. They were relentless to the point of almost whining so I took the 2 liters of pop out of the fridge. They became completely silent, their eyes huge thinking that for the first time mom would cave. I went to the sink and dumped the pop down the drain. I will remember the looks on their faces forever. It was the best.
The Naked Police. My oldest loved naked time after bath but started to refuse to get dressed when naked time was over. I invented The Naked Police. I would tell him TNP would come and make him get dressed if he wouldn’t. Eventually I had to start calling TNP on the phone and one time I had to sneak out the side door and pound on the front door yellin “Naked Police, open up” in a manly voice.
Re: monster spray:
I had a similar situation with the Princess a couple years ago. She was terrified of zombies. I found that a spray or two of coconut-scented air freshener (or, in a pinch, Bath & Body Works’ Coconut-Lime Verbena Body Splash) is an effective zombie repellent. Mostly because we haven’t experienced any zombie invasions since I first began using it in her room. 
I really think this is beautiful.
Where is that “I’m not worthy” smiley? You are so cool.
The Naked Police reminds me of an article in Wonder Time, I think it was, about the mom inventing a third-party chore inspector who would come to the house when the kids were away, and then e-mail a report to their mother. If Dolores thought the rooms were too messy for the kids to get allowance or whatever, the mom could be all, “My hands are tied, Dolores says you failed inspection.” It was a riot.
Around here, any body part that is injured slightly and is whined about is fair game to be amputated and eaten. My husband made this up, and when you type it in black and white, it sounds horrifying, but it works great to make our Drama Queen stop sniveling and forget about her stubbed toe. As soon as Daddy says, “Oh good, I get to eat it!” she starts laughing and protesting that no, she’s not badly hurt at all.
Recently I’ve started answering stupid questions with stupid answers. As I’m cooking dinner, I hear, “What are you doing?” “Building a cathedral.” We’re waiting for a friend at a restaurant, “Is Ginger here yet?” “Yes, she’s sitting right across from you, talking to you,” gesture at empty chair
Chicken thumb.
Last night ended with “and If you act tomorrow how you acted today, you’ll get a spanking before breakfast.” (they’re great at just skirting the edge of corporal punishment.
This morning, they started at it, I grabbed a wooden spoon and said, give me your hand. They got a light swat on the palm - about a 2 on a scale from one to 10. I said “now picture how that would feel on your bottom?”
They’ve been angels ever since.
(and I now await the anti-spanking crowd who have never been out numbered by 5 year olds)
After my first child was born I went back to work and we shared a nanny with another family. She would sometimes take the two little kiddies out to eat (usually at Rainforest Cafe). To keep them in line at the restaurant, she told them that if they misbehaved she would have to get the manager. For some reason the figure of the “manager” became a potent power in our house, one with many incarnations. We invented a neighborhood manager who patrolled the street listening for children throwing tantrums, an airplane manager who would evict misbehaving children, a grocery store manager who restricted candy and cookie purchases, etc.
One time we took a long car trip with my mother. Rather than making the usual fast-food stop, we stopped at a nicer restaurant, like a Marriott or something. As the hostess seated us, my daughter asked me, “Is there a manager here?” The hostess turned around surprised and said, “Does she have a problem?” She must have thought we were going to be quite the troublesome party, with a five-year-old asking for the manager before we even sat down!
Wow, that’s incredibly spiteful.
You think that’s spiteful? One Christmas my older sister convinced my brother and me to break into all the presents with her. Mom found out and took every single thing back to the store. No Christmas that year.
Please write a book! I refuse to conceive until you do! 
The toddler (2 and 2 months) wanted to ride in one of those car carts at the supermarket. My husband and I have sworn that we will never let him ride in one of these, and we’re putting it off as long as possible.
He asked to ride in it yesterday, and we told him that you have to have a special license to push one of the car carts, and neither Mommy nor Daddy have passed the test yet.
I was shocked, but he bought it :D.
For about 48 hours, I had my five year old convinced I had some magical power that allows me to predict when a traffic light is about to change to green. But then she asked me to do it again on our next car trip, then asked how I did it, and I had to tell the truth and reward her skepticism.
Whoosh, right? Kudos on the part I underlined.
OK, I’ll play along. A doper who doesn’t want his kid to grow into an adult who can hold his own in an argument when he’s in a college classroom, arguing with a neighbor, haggling for a new car, etc.?! Granted, it’s like nuclear energy—it can be used for good or evil, but you wouldn’t want to get any on you (Scott Adams/Dilbert would be the cite on that, I think). Logical skills, fallacies to avoid and so on…these are right up the sdmb’s alley.
I think if a kid learns to weigh the quality of his arguments before opening his mouth, that’s a very good thing. Maybe he really wants this, he really has some persuasive arguments and so on. If not, he’s not going to waste his (and the parent’s) time. But it’s not just “because I said so,” which doesn’t show him why.
Seriously, I’d spend TIME on it and NOT let the kid get away. The second time he says “Why do I have to clean my room?” I’d sit him down and ask what reasons we “discovered” last time. He tries to slip away (“Oh, I remember now”) and I would be like, “No, wait. It’s important…let’s make sure we understand each other.” Not in a lecturing, punitive way—never let on; you’re a concerned, loving parent who will spend the time. They have no idea/don’t care what a PITA it is to go through it again for you…but also realize that they have ZERO patience and ZERO ability to defer gratification and make it work for you. The third time he asks why he has to clean his room…well, there almost certainly won’t be a third time.
There are good reasons for parental requests. As adults, we just accepted and assimilated a lot of them…later, as parents you ask the kids to do something but don’t reinvent the wheel. You don’t mentally enumerate all the good, reasonable, long-term reasons for the requests while asking. He’s not going to win many arguments, but if there are extenuating circumstances and/or the parents are being a little too tough, whatever, he can still ask for a variance or whatever.
When the kid gets stuck, ask questions. Make sure they aren’t “Yes/No” questions. “Why do you think…?” “What would happen if…?” etc. And end the convo positively. “So you see, it really is important.”
Taurine matrix. You need a taurine matrix to open a wormhole.
Yes.
No, not entirely; I don’t think logic and the effective presentation of ideas should be a type of punishment, or coercion. If you do that, the little monsters will learn to turn it back on you right quick. I think it should be associated with positive stuff, like, oh, selecting which present to ask Santa for.
I also think kids should learn to accept authority, because unless they live in a cave they will have to deal with it, so I’m a big supporter of a well respected (and respectful) “Because Mommy says so.”
However, since everything has to be oh so nuturing and supportive for the children, I can also defend my (utterly ridiculous) suggestion of forbidding letters; it will help them with spelling and improve their vocabulary.
I thought Redbull gave you wings?
Oh yeah, I love doing that! It works so well. I don’t have kids but I’ve always used that. I don’t threaten to eat it though just to cut it off so it wont hurt any more. Also, when they hit they heads I ask to look at it and then claim to be able to see their brain. Then I ask if I can poke it. They always immediately forget all about the injury.
You had to be there. They were being total brats about the pop not just asking repeatedly. I had already politely and firmly told them no and had started to ignore them and still they wouldn’t stop. It’s not like I gave away their most prized possession, I threw away 1 dollar worth of pop, something they got on a regular basis.
Kids have to learn when they go to far and sometimes you have to be creative when you just want to scream at them. I believe they were maybe 4 yrs old and 9.
I didn’t get any either
It depends on how you treat it, I think. If outwardly, you act the “concerned parent” it doesn’t have to seem like punishment. OTOH if the kid is being a snotty jerk, maybe a little punishment is in order. If you really wanted to punish him, you’d ground him, take away the car, etc. so how bad is this “punishment,” really?
I agree that sometimes “Because I say so” is valid. E.g. the kid may not like the speed limit when driving, but the ticket will be difficult to beat.
Hopefully the kid will catch on that the requests aren’t arbitrary, capricious, unfair, etc. He probably doesn’t really think so in the first place, but the base is covered just in case. The idea that every parental demand needs to be justified is hooey, of course. The kid just stumbled across the word “Why?” and if the parent buys into it, well, you know.
I think some of the other suggestions in here are quite interesting as well. As the child grows, one approach will fall out of favor and another will be more appropriate.