…and by what magic means have you trained them to FOLLOW the rules?
What I’d really like is for my 4-yr-olds to act like small 40-yr-olds – read the paper, drink some coffee, discuss politics, wash a dish now and then.
What they would really like is to be wild, naked beasts in the jungle (i.e., my house).
WHERE and HOW do I draw the line here?
I’m not completely unsuccessful with this - they’re nice kids, empathetic, funny, often kind and thoughtful. We often go places and do things together, and I enjoy them a lot.
They just can’t seem to remember the simplest rules.
Like, “Don’t prop the back door open and spray the laundry room with the garden hose as you’re washing your Planet Heroes on the deck.”
I shouldn’t have to tell them this.
Also, “Don’t poke your favorite bouncy ball with a tack.”
That one should’ve been obvious, too.
Well, I come from a household where children were allowed – hell, even encouraged occasionally – to be children. We had naked time. We had jungle time. My only rule was that in public (or at someone else’ house) they were to act civilised, at our own house, they could pretty much run wild. Obvious exceptions being those in which they could hurt themself or someone else (well, ok, sometimes I let them hurt themselves, it’s part of growing up).
I don’t really have a magic pill for making them behave other than consistency. Something that is not acceptable today is still not acceptable tomorrow, no matter how tired or sick I am or how little I want to deal with it. Consistency is the biggest thing in keeping the kids in line, IME.
The rules for The Littlest Briston are pretty standard stuff…say “please” and “excuse me” when warranted, put away your toy when you’re done with it and before getting out another, all stuff like that. And while she’s a good kid to an almost creepy “is-this-some-kinda-pod-child” degree, she’ll still blow up now and then just like any other kid. “Acting up” is fine, but when she’s in “throwing a complete nuclear fit” mode that I break out Daddy’s Secret Weapon.
I cry.
I look at her, and do the lower-lip-tremor, and I sniffle a bit, and I say “<sniff> W-why aren’t you being a good girl? <snuffle> You’re…you’re making daddy cry…<sniff>”.
That’s her magic switch. I don’t know exactly what about it is so troublesome for her, but I do that and the she reverts right back into good girl mode.
I should print this out and put it on the side so she can show it to her therapist in 20 years…
I have no kids, but watching my sisters and their kids, I can tell you that kids want boundaries and rules. They want to know what they can do and what they can’t. They’ll push back, but mostly it’s to see if that really is the rule, or if you’re just negotiating. Just don’t expect them to have much common sense.
I can’t seem to find that line, re: letting children be children. For mine, that means doing incredibly stupid and destructive things. To my house. Spilling things on things, smearing things on things, breaking things just merely by handling them.
I’m sure I’m not consistent, because I keep dancing back and forth across that line. “DON’T DOOO THAT!!!” when I find them, say, throwing Magic Sand all over the room. (oh, geez, is it REALLY that big a deal?) “Please try not to do that.” (now ignored, because the larger reaction has been played).
Sorry, have to go see what my son means when he says “We put my money collection in a ball of water!”
It is a tough line to find, but I really feel it is why my kids have turned out so great. The thing is, I could count on one hand the number of times I have had to spank either of them (and yes, I do spank) but they act as if they’re scared to death of the possibility. If I get that look in my eye, they straighten up immediately.
The thing is, carpets can be cleaned, things can be replaced, a childhood lost is gone forever, ya know? I hate to see kids that are never allowed to be kids – it’s just so sad to me.
Obviously, like I said, something that could seriously hurt them (sticking things in electrical outlets, shoving hands down garbage disposals) are MAJOR no-no’s, as is backtalking/mouthing off, otherwise, noise doesn’t bother me and dirt is fixable. You have to find your comfort zone. The best way to learn consistency is to pick your battles. What’s the most important to you? If a little smear on the couch is ok, but a flooded kitchen isn’t, be consistent about it. That doesn’t mean you can’t tell them not to smear chocolate on the couch, it just means you don’t freak out about it today and ignore it next week, ya know? It’s tough, but you will figure out what works for you…I hope
Something I read in a parenting magazine years ago is, when it comes to kids, say “yes” unless you have a specific reason for saying “no”, and that has worked for me. Of course, “specific reasons for saying no” has to include 'gut reaction that this is a Very Bad Idea".
As far as breaking things just by handling them, well, kids are klutzes by nature. Therefore, we teach them that we don’t handle certain things. This can include putting certain things out of their reach/line of vision so as not to tempt them. Smearing and spilling things? This is a preschooler’s idea of scientific experimentation, so your best bet is to give them things that are specifically designed to spill/smear. Water play in the bathtub, water/sand play in a water and sand table (Fisher Price makes a nice one), finger paint, or even chocolate pudding on finger paint paper, etc.
Setting limits and enforcing them is key. Otherwise, the kids get an idea of “slot machine misbehavior”, which basically means “Hey, let’s try this and see if it pays off!”
Enforcing the limits is the hard part. Sometimes you’re very busy when the rules get broken, or you’re very tired. But it pays off in the long run!
Meanwhile, I personally would strongly suggest you invest in a Dyson vacuum cleaner.
Norine, that’s the doggnedest thing - I was just sitting here thinking that. “Yes” as the Official Default (excepting for personal/house safety) is a good idea. Really, that makes a lot of sense.
It is often what I do, because the only way they believe anything is to experience it themselves, anyway. On principle I agree with you. I do.
Honestly, though, you guys, you would not BELIEVE some of the consequences that come up as a result of this policy. The stuff they do, it just blows my mind - Why? Why? Why do they even try these things? How could it possibly occur to them?
The uses they come up with for toothpaste, for example, are vast.
So then I pull back and start working to set up some clear rules.
Headaches ensue.
It’s also a personal space thing, for me. They invade my space. My stuff, my house, my body - they step on my feet when climbing into my lap, elbow me, get into my nightstand and smear Vicks VapoRub all over themselves.
My parents did the opposite. Today, I am 40 years old; I read the paper (well, online news), drink coffee, discuss politics, wash dishes…everything the OP said she wanted. Draw your own conclusions.
I think “because it’s driving Mama crazy” is a legitimate reason to say no, though. Not to everything, because it obviously isn’t just about your comfort, but you are allowed to acknowledge things that just drive you insane.
You have my philosophy right on. State something in a positive fashion when at all possible. I am trying to come up with examples. I did home day care for a number of years so it shouldn’t be hard. Very simplistic example: Instead of “Don’t run with your plate,” say “Please walk so that things don’t get spilled.”
Another one my mom taught me was to always give the kids a choice even if they don’t really have one. Let’s say the situation is that the kids need to get dressed. Don’t say, “What do you want to wear?” Instead, pick out two outfits and say “Which one would you like to wear?” That is of course, when it matters. When I was doing day care and knew I was going to be home, I would let my son wear what he wanted. Choose your battles.
When my kids were little there were only four things they could get punished for:
Endangering themselves or someone else
Willful disobedience
Intentionally hurting another person
Being intentionally destructructive toward property
Any one of the big four would lead to immediate time-out. Or, in extreme cases, a spanking. (We only resorted to that a handful of times.)
More minor things – making a mess, bickering, name calling – would be met with redirection and a warning but no punishment. If the warning was then ignored … well that counts as “willful disobedience” doesn’t it? They’re sitting in their rooms not because they threw the laundry around the living room, but because they DIDN’T LISTEN after they were TOLD not to throw the laundry around the living room.
One minor rule we drummed into them over and over again: “Don’t make work for other people.” Lots of negative behaviors fit under this umbrella. After a while the kid realizes that even though there isn’t a specific rule against unrolling all the toilet paper, it probably counts as “making working for other people.”
We discovered that the fewer times you punish the kids, the more weight the punishment carried. Only once did both kids got spanked at the same time; it was spoken of in hushed tones for years as “the bad night we both got in trouble”.
My kids are ten and eight now. Complete strangers have come up to us in public and complemented us on their behavior. My son has lost videogame priveleges a few times this year for not turning in his homework, but other than that he’s been nothing but responsible and considerate. My daughter … I can’t remember the last time we had to punish her … it’s been more than a year at least.
Orange plastic bowl, water, wet bedroom floor, pennies.
Looked like the preschool version of “Quarters”.
NO.WATER.IN.THE.HOUSE!!!
Of course, that was a whole, what, 2 hours ago. A veritable lifetime.
I tried to take a picture of the munchkins to post just now, he looked so cute in his sunglasses, she’s adorable in her swimsuit (they’ve been out in the hose, but came in to say “Hi”).
Except I couldn’t get the exposure set right, all the pix are blurry – and then they started roughhousing and she pushed him and his wooden chair over backwards.
Thud
Crying
Corner for the perp
M&Ms for the victim
Here’s what my day is like. In backwards order, that last shot is when he’s eating his M&Ms (it’s
Sweet Monday over here, he was due for his treat anyway).
This is a much more eloquent version of what I was trying to say. Especially the bolded part – my kids live in fear of me being angry enough to spank, because it has happened so rarely.
My daughter will be four in a couple of months, and I am starting to crack down a little bit with her. She’s always been relatively agreeable, but she is definitely getting a mind of her own. In terms of firm rules, there are only a few. She can’t hit anyone (that’s not a big one with her, anyway), she can’t throw things, she can’t take toys away from her brother (he just turned 1) and she can’t say no when I make a request of her. I don’t have a specific rule about picking up her messes, other than when I decide it’s time to clean up, she has to help. If she doesn’t cooperate with these things, she gets a count of 5 to decide she’s going to do it, and if she doesn’t, she gets a time out. That almost always works. I do the count of 5 thing with temper tantrums, too…I tell her that on the count of 5 she has to be done with her crying. It’s amazing how she can nip a temper trantrum in the bud when she wants to. At first, I was counting to 3, but that wasn’t enough time for her, but 5 works pretty well. I’m glad it does, because actually sending her to the time out is a misery for everyone.
I’ll also set rules here and there for certain toys (the messy ones, mostly). For instance, she can only play with play-doh at her own little table, and she has a little chalkboard which has to stay in the kitchen, so she doesn’t get chalk on any of the rugs. For the most part, I let her strew her stuff around, so she knows when I lay the law down about a certain thing I’m not kidding around.
Forgive me for saying, but it sounds like you aren’t asking what our rules are so much as you are asking if you will ever feel sane again and that your life has some order. I recognize it because I remember a night not too terribly long ago when I was trying to figure out what the rules of my house were because everything seemed so chaotic that I thought if the youngest pulled on my ear one more time (that’s his comfort thing) that I was going to absolutely snap. All I wanted was for someone to take the children and let me go to an isolation chamber for about 12 hours. So, having said all that I will give you the basic philosophy of my house: mess up what you want, just make sure it’s clean before bedtime. In other words, I don’t care if every toy in the toybox comes out and they have a blast playing with it. They just have to put it up when it’s time for bed/bath/night routine. Toothpaste? Last night I heard the water running in the bathroom sink and too much quiet in the house. I walked around and saw my 3 y/o running a “bubble bath” for the Power Rangers in my bathroom sink using kid’s Colgate to make the bubbles. Did I mention that he neglected to notice when the sink was filled because he was having fun with the waterfall he had created onto the bathroom floor?
So yes, I do understand the “how in the hell did you even think of that” question that runs across your mind.
Here is my trick to sanity and deciding if it is worth it to punish someone or not - will it matter later? We had some thing at work where you had to ask yourself when you got upset - will it matter in 10 minutes? 10 days? 10 weeks? 10 years? I can guarantee that if I do think about the toothpaste bubble bath in 10 days it will just be a funny story, so it’s not worth it to me to make a big deal out of. I just shut the water off, said “Uh oh! Look what happens when you leave the sink on - grab a towel and help me clean” and know to keep a better eye/ear out for running sink water from now on.
In everything, I have taken a friend’s advice for life: find the joy. When my baby is grown up will he look back on the day his mom playfully cleaned up bubbles with him, or a mommy that was so sad and stressed that everything was drama? I find the joy. When he is standing on my clean kitchen floor covered in dirt and tracking it all around, I focus on his smile and find the joy.
Oh, I LOVE this. No kids yet (soon, we hope) but this is one I wonder about: How old are they when can they actually figure this out, that “Fun Thing I Thought of Doing” might lead to “Work for Other People”? How did you teach this?
, sorta