I saw the MJ/Oprah interview back in '92. I see a marked difference in his demeanor. In the Oprah interview, he came off as vulnerable and wounded, and in general, he was reclusive and paranoid. Now he’s much more relaxed and easygoing. He seems genuinely happy. But are his kids, and will they continue to be so? I don’t disagree with any projections made in this thread.
I think those masks are a very bad idea. A kidnapper could use them to get lead time: take the mask off Paris, put it on another little girl, grab Paris, run. Do the bodyguards even know what she looks like without the mask?
Does he wear colors other than white, black and red? And in that last interview segment, his hairline looked suspiciously like the edge of a wig.
I think MJ is a very sad character, he’s obviously had a very damaging childhood and it looks to me as if he’s unwilling to grow up because he wants to have that childhood back again and to have the chance to be the kind of child he wanted to be.
The fact that he surrounds himself with children suggests to me that it’s his way of keeping the connection of childhood and with childlike perception going - if he spends more time with adults, he’ll start to lose the childlike quality in his life and become more like an adult. Which appears to be something he doesn’t want to happen.
From our perspective of “life in the real world”, we can all sit here and say that we think he’s weird, he’s damaged, he may be totally paranoid etc, but we can’t make too many judgements because none of us will ever know what his life was truly like and what kind of things go on in his head.
Yes, there was a huge backlash after the baby-dangling incident and I agree that it was stupid and totally lacking in common sense, but at the same time I don’t think he actually intended to harm that child. Having said that, I also don’t think he really understands the consequences of his actions and how those actions are perceived by the rest of the world.
As for Martin Bashir, the guy’s a journalist and was just doing his job. I’m sure most of us would be prepared to admit that there were questions in that interview that we’d all have wanted to ask!
Can I get off this soapbox now? I don’t like heights and I’m starting to feel a bit dizzy…
It wasn’t the questions Bashir asked, it was the way he asked them, as well as the way he behaved at some points. The one big one that comes to mind is when he’s trying to get MJ to dance. Michael gets shy, and says he doesn’t want to dance because he’s shy. “So, you’re shy. Now Dance,” like he’s some sort of dancing monkey or something (which, in many people’s opinion, isn’t far from the truth). Also, the bit with the “Giving Tree.” Here’s something MJ says he hasn’t shown ANYONE! Not even the little kids he lets sleep with him, I bet. So, he graces this guy with his camera to check out this very special place, and Bashir acts like he couldn’t give a rat’s ass. Sure, it’s just a tree, but here you are trying to show who this person really is and get a better understanding of them…this recluse opens up to you, and you just look at him everytime he talks and give this “Uhhh, yeah, sure, whatever” attitude. It was just very unprofessional in my opinion, and incredible rude.
We do interviews all the time here at the studio, and it’s like talking to your grandparents. You may not always give a damn about what they’re talking about, but when they start speaking of something that means something, it’s polite to at least fiegn interest. I don’t think it would be compormising any jounalistic integrity if Bashir let MJ talk about some of these aspects of his life without having everything revert back to his sex life and “perversions.”
I liked MJ as a child. My first real record was Thriller. After “Bad” though, he kinda dropped off my radar, and for years I’ve often wondered what the hell his appeal was to people in Europe and the like when he obviously has become nothing more than a joke here in the states. I saw this interview/documentary as something that could help open up to the States something more as to who this guy is and what makes him so special still. To me, it just came off as one big food bowl for the tabloids. Like I said, Bashir obviously had a negative opinion of MJ before he filmed this thing, and with the way he edited it, his commentary, and attitude, you can see he wanted this thing to do nothing more than present everyone with that opinion. After 8 months worth of footage, to see that, I’d be pissed if I was MJ too.
I think he’s gotten to the point where even his friends don’t defend him anymore. People like Marlon Brando or Elizabeth Taylor.
One of the saddest parts for me was when he did the moonwalk at the very begining. I thought of the footage of when he did the moonwalk on some award presentation for Motown, back when he was normal looking. My, how the mighty have fallen. He looked sad doing the moonwalk, a shell of his former glory.
The part where he ran out of the hospital with newborn Paris was really creepy. And the hospital let him do it? What I also find sad is that Jackson obviously doesn’t let his children see their mothers and that he claims that the mothers don’t want to see their children.
Martin Bashir’s hardly a hard hitting reporter… he kinda soft soaps his interviewees - then tries to come across as a “real” documentary maker. Watch some of the documentary’s on Channel 4 or BBC 2 and you’ll see some good, strong, tough documentary making (ie one recent one re the “cottage” industry of porn in the UK - f**k truck doco if anyone saw it) - thats more the kind of documentary that would have found out more relevant information… the whole shopping thing was plain dull - so the guy has no taste? so what… this was a missed opportunity - could have really been a fantastic piece of film…
I thouoght Bashir was not being objective at all, either. I was watching and thinking, this guy is just baiting Michael.
At the Vegas hotel, when Michael told Bashir that he liked to ride that motorized wheel-deelie around the hallways, Bashir said “You’re kidding me, right?” like it was the end-all be-all of crazy.
Michael may be crazy, but I don’t think the viewing public needed Bashir’s snide comments and rude questions telling us so.
I actually felt sorry for MJ. His dad really did a number on him. The whole “milk and cookies and music and bed time stories” for the kids in his room just showed a man painfully desparate to find a safe secure childhood place.
It sounded like he just wanted his own kids because the baby dolls he carried around just got boring after a while.
I’m surprised nobody has commented on the way he held hands with the 12 year old boy and how the boy snuggled up to him. The boy behaved like any middle schooler in his first romantic relationship. And, I don’t blame the boy. To me, it was apparent that he’s getting bizarre and confusing vibes from MJ.
The crowds that gathered in Las Vegas. We’ve seen crowds gather for him in Europe, but not in the US – I remember speculating with a friend that his managers or someone had hired people to show up outside the courthouse during the recent trial, because I can’t believe there are that many people who are still fans. But that mall was just jammed. Some of it, most likely, was a snowballing effect – “what’s everyone looking at?” – but there were hundreds of people.
Some of whom seemed genuinely moved by meeting him – that one girl sobbing and being comforted by a friend (that was in Vegas, right?).
Also, the zoo thing, when Bashir said “Can’t you let the kids go with their nannies and some bodyguards?” and he said “no no no” – WTF?
(Also – MayberryDan is right that his definition of classical music shows a little… vagueness about music history. “People” by Barbra Frickin’ Streisand!!!)
I’d venture to say that quite a few of us that post here have had some trauma in their childhood years.
I’d also venture to say that the majority of us that suffered childhood trauma don’t, NOW,
sleep with other people’s adolescent children in our beds.
(With or without sexual relations implied)
So Jacko had a rough childhood?
He’s got enough money to invest in some serious therapy
so he can… GET OVER IT.
No sympathy.
I saw the interview, it was quite …umm interesting.
Why does he always talk in that soft, sing-songy female impersonator voice. Has that always been his voice?
Did ABC at any time mention that 5 million dollars had been paid to procure this interview. I didn’t see it. Did I miss it?
I had an background impression of him (based on his work) that whatever his other failings, he was an artist of significant depth and a fairly canny businessman (re the Beatles catalog acquistion etc) yet he comes across as something of a clueless airhead. For a person of such enormous expressive talent he seems remarkably inarticulate about his talent, other than some mutterings of “don’t fight the music” and he seems almost idiot savantish about his talent and his financial affairs.
It is not uncommon for pedophiles to have a childlike personality. Most of them were molested themselves and have become emotionally arrested at the age when the trauma occurred. (Many women who were molested as children have “little girl” voices).
A pedophile does not necessarily seem like a predator, in fact their own perceptions of their relationships with their victims is often that they are peers, that they are on an equal footing. They idealize their exploitation of children as loving, romantic relationships. They truly believe that they are in love with their victims.
Some common characteristics of pedophiles are that they are interested in the same things as children, they often have things at their house which are attractive to children (video games, snacks and treats, toys, animals, whatever) they get along very well with children, kids like them. They will find ways to be around children. They seem very passive and mild to adults, and they work very hard to earn the trust of parents.
Michael Jackson has all of these characteristics in spades. His Neverland ranch is designed to be the ultimate kid magnet. He has never had a sexual relationship with an adult (I’m not buying the Lisa Marie thing). He was traumatized (by his own admission) as a child. He is at least rumored to have been a victim of sexual abuse. He is obsessed with little boys, and specifically attractive little boys. You never see any fat kids at his side. He is only interested in boys, you never see any girls. He has credibally been accused of sexual abuse by at least one of these kids. Jackson avoided criminal charges only by paying a massive sum of money to shut the kid up. There have been numerous other rumors from those who know him about some very suspect activities with kids. His own sister has said publicly that she has seen checks for six and seven figures written out to the parents of Jackson’s playmates (I know, I know, it’s LaToya, but I believe her).
Normal men do not keep their beds stocked with 12 year old boys.
twickster47, I recall a girl sobbing and being comforted in Germany, which appears to be home to the most rabid Michael Jackson fans in the world.
astro, the NY Times article linked to above mentions the $5 million sum ABC paid Granada Television for the documentary. I also believe the high-pitched voice has always been Michael’s.
I’ll visit the Pit thread to check it out, but I’m still stuck between thinking Jackson’s completely batshit or just a sad, tragic result of a violent and chaotic childhood. Jackson’s done his best to isolate himself from the real world by building Neverland as a utopian escape from all things adult or scary and surrounding himself with a staff of presumably well-paid individuals who probably wouldn’t say anything disparaging about him while in his employ.
I think what happened to him as a child is disgusting and reprehensible, although I think some of Jackson’s brothers dispute Michael’s claims of abuse by their father (I seem to remember a bit on this in the program after the interview on ABC). He truly is a child in that he refuses to believe there are consequences to his actions, and he seems to have no sense of self-control; showing his baby to the masses in Berlin was a totally impulsive and ill-thought-out decision, as is letting his fans come into his private vehicle to give him a hug. This denial of the attitudes and opinions of everyone else was most evident in the aforementioned (eloquently by longjohn) use of “ignorant” to describe his critics, and the disturbing section on sharing his bedroom and bed with young children. He absolutely refused to even consider that some people might think it was strange or, in light of the abuse allegations, at least an ill-advised idea. I can’t even get into the plastic surgery ridiculousness now. To see the words “It’s the honest truth” come out of that artificial face would have been hysterical if it wasn’t so creepy.
I was shocked by Bashir’s mention that Prince Michael I told him “I don’t have a mommy.” WTF? And Jackson was totally cool with that. I also want to know whether it’s good to jiggle a baby around so much during bottle-feeding. I don’t have a lot of pity or sympathy for Jackson, but my heart truly goes out to those children. I will say Jackson was right about the fact they can never go to a normal school because they’re his kids, but he’s so paranoid about their well-being he’s doing more detriment than good, IMO. That trip to the Berlin Zoo creeped me out, with everyone surrounded by a phalanx of bodyguards. I seriously doubt the kids could see anything.
I’m just going to go ahead with what other posters have said and agree Jackson’s headed for a serious meltdown. He’s gone beyond eccentric and is now tumbling down insanity hill.
Why isn’t there more speculation that Michael Jackson is on drugs? I never even hear that, just “he’s a nut” or “whatta sicko” type stuff. No one said “Whitney is crazy” – we knew the score immediately. I at least wonder if he isn’t on anything and everything (like Liza, “Miss Ross” and any number of his friends and other folks in showbiz.) You can see he has no problem using “medicine” to alter his appearance why not his mood too?
At least ask the question & it never is. I wonder if a great big stay in rehab might not be a big part of what is needed here …
I agree with Twickster47 about the zoo WTF? Even if it got outta control he should have understood afterward and said “yeah that was nuts” “rather than They were fine” That shook me up about his grasp of reality … that and the little bit of pissiness leaving the Nanny to teach his daughter to let go of his hand in Las Vegas … That showed who was responsible for “handling” the kids around Michael IMHO
If you watched it with closed captions on, about 70 minutes into this interview, the captions said him saying ‘F-U-C-K’ That’s just how the captions looked, not ‘FUCK’. I don’t know if the audio was bleeped or not. That was fun.
I was just fascinated by the whole spectacle of the documentary. Sometimes he came across as a real PERSON, other times he seemed like an alien or at least non-human.
It’s too bad his talent has become obsolete, he has nothing to say any longer as an artist. Now he is a side show and is just famous for being famous and eccentric.
A couple people have said, “What will Michael do when his kids turn into teenagers and then adults?” To me the answer is obvious–he will just make more!!! Or adopt them.
