OTOH responding to someone liking something you don’t with well you’d gobble up anything they served up good for you is clearly pissy. Declaring as objective fact that something was tepid is dumb.
Agreed, but to my mind, there are only two reasons to point out that you dislike something that someone else does. It is either to find out from them what it is that they liked, so that you may find enjoyment in something that you previously didn’t, or to belittle them for liking something that they shouldn’t have.
Maybe there’s something in that middle that I’ve excluded, but I’m not sure what it could be.
Now, if I ask you if you liked something, then obviously, the reason for saying that you didn’t was to answer my question. But if you volunteer it without being directly asked, then you care about it more, in one way or the other.
“Do you like Broccoli?” “No.” “How about steamed with cheese? Beef with Broccoli, Mandarin style? What are your thoughts on cauliflower?” That’s a bit pestering.
But if you see me enjoying my broccoli, and you come up and say, “I don’t like broccoli.” then you want something.
There’s a saying, don’t yuck someone else’s yum. It’s useful in some social situations. Recently someone posted on his own FB page how much he was enjoying Dark Season 3. Because I am not a dick, I did not tell him I abandoned the series because of Season 3. What point would that serve?
Now if he had instead said, “Tell me what you think of Season 3!” I would have happily given my opinion.
It seems to me that, unless explicitly labeled as an appreciation thread, CS threads are by default “Tell me what you think about…”
In that vein, there is a third possibility for why someone would announce they don’t like something, and that is that they wish to find others who don’t like it and discuss what’s wrong with it. That would be why I’m here.
Those two things are not the same. I can say something was terrible, that’s an opinion I’m allowed to have. I shouldn’t say that anyone else is lesser because they disagreed. And I haven’t.
However, saying that “the reason you didn’t like it is because you expected X or you have bias Y” is an example of the latter. That I have never done, but it’s been done to me repeatedly.
Come off it. I used “tepid” because that’s the term that the reviewer I cited used verbatim. Talk about seeking out grievance…
You’re ignoring the 3rd option here. The critics are not talking to you. In this thread there’s several people who share the opinion that it was a difficult watch. We’re generally talking to each other and commiserating. We’re theorizing on ways it could have been made better. Yet, time and time again we’re getting @mentioned by those of you that insist on telling us why we’re simply failing to see the light.
I know pointing finger and assigning blame is probably better done in the Pit, which I have no interest in, but if you’d like to do some research you can review my posts and note that I’m not initiating any of these pissing matches by quoting any comments from admirers. Yet every time I share a dissenting view with another dissenter, someone feels the need to correct us one way or another.
…lets point out the obvious here: the Rotten Tomatoes audience scores notoriously have been gamed by disgruntled shit-posters and the audience scores should be taken with a grain of salt. Look at another “event” show streaming previously:
Critically acclaimed. Audience score of 55%. At the very least we can click on a critic’s review and we can critique the critique.
So…that’s not a valid reflection of what people think? Fucking bizarre that.
Are you seriously saying that WandaVision is being brigaded and that those of us in this thread, who make up a slight majority, are somehow part of this brigade and that we can’t be taken seriously or that we’re somehow acting in bad faith? Holy shit dude.
I fully expected all the old style sitcom tropes in the first episode, it bore me to tears anyway.
So I didn’t watch any more episodes, I guess I’m losing out, but I can’t force myself to watch the 2nd episode just for the dubious privilege of trying to find clues about a surreal situation.
Comparisons to “The Prisoner” also make me very wary of this show, I hate that kind of extreme surrealism.
Then again, considering my last sentence this show probably wasn’t for me anyway.
…I have no fucking idea. I don’t trust any audience scores. They have no statistical validity.
I’m seriously not saying that.
The people who have no issue with the structure are busy discussing plot developments over in the other thread. The fact that more people didn’t like the first couple of episodes are participating in this thread is not a surprising development.
Holy shit dude.
That was a pretty giant leap out of nowhere.
What part of “the Rotten Tomatoes audience scores notoriously have been gamed by disgruntled shit-posters and the audience scores should be taken with a grain of salt” lead you to that conclusion?
Quick history lesson.
I mentioned that several critics in various channels have had discussions that agreed with us detractors. I quoted one.
DSeid said those are completely invalid…for unstated reasons. He cites his own critics as being somehow superior and more indicative of the general public.
I pointed out that his chosen source actually has a metric that tries to reflect the actual general public’s views. Since that’s what is now apparently what’s at odds. It’s low by the standards of it’s peers.
You come back and cite an example where the general public is being accused of brigading a show to counter the fact that WandaVision is low. Clearly implying that this can’t be trusted…for reasons?
So, if your entire premise is that Rotten Tomatoes audience score is low because it’s manipulated then I see no other possible interpretation. If your premise is that no crowdsourced metric which purports to reflect subjective opinion can be trusted on it’s face, I’ll say that’s particularly convenient for you. Certain politicians feel the same way.
…yeah, nah, this isn’t a thing. You’ve got my entire premise wrong. Do you understand what “take with a grain of salt” actually means?
It doesn’t mean I think the audience score is low because it’s manipulated.
It could be that. Or it could be one of a number of things. Or a combination of many different things.
Lets, for example assume that everybody that posted an audience score on Rotten Tomatoes posted something that accurately reflected their opinion.
I would still take the audience score with a grain of salt. Because the audience score only represents people that 1) know of the existence of Rotten Tomatoes and 2) feel so strongly about Wandavision that they felt they needed to register their opinion in the form of a score.
A big difference between critics scores and audience scores can mean any number of things. It could be a genuine difference in how a work is perceived. It could be the result of brigading. It could be both things, it could be something else. But in itself it isn’t particularly statistically meaningful. You are reading much more into what I said than what I actually said.
There’s personal and systemic bias in everything. There’s any number of problems with critics and their motives for the reviews they give, it’s a dirty business with a ton of conflicting interests. If you’re trying to have a academic discussion about all discussion on internet or any discussion of “art” on the internet, that’s a different thread. I didn’t bring up “online scores” as a method to bolster may argument, DSeid did. Your issue is with him, unless you only care about the flaws in one metric, which is conveniently selective.
And for the record, cherry-picking a single example of a brigaded TV show as a defense of this one show is not as innocuous as you’re pretending it is. It explicitly compares the behavior of critics here with critics there, and since that’s basically the conversation we’re having right now you should have expected that inference.
Implicitly, not explicitly. Sorry, missed the edit window.
I didn’t like the first episode. I didn’t like the second episode. I didn’t like much of the third episode. But I thought the last few minutes were terrific. And I thought the fourth episode knocked it out of the park.
On the other hand, despite my disagreement with Miller upthread on the relative influence of The Prisoner, and while I don’t think WandaVision has nearly the same level of surrealism for the sake of surrealism, if you hated The Prisoner, yeah, this show probably isn’t for you.
…I mean, you started it? I didn’t want to have a discussion about “art on the internet” but you took my post and distorted its meaning. I had every right to clarify what it was I actually said.
Yeah, but the critics scores give us a point of comparison though. We can look at each critic, we can look at their history, we can look at the sort of shows they tend to like, what they don’t and we can see how often there is a mismatch between the critics scores and the audience scores.
And honestly I would expect the audience score to be lower. This was a risky move for Marvel. They originally wanted to launch with The Falcon and the Winter Soldier and that would have made sense: it has a much more blockbuster feel and will probably be much more mainstream. It was always going to be divisive, and that’s okay.
I have no issue with what DSeid did because they didn’t do anything wrong. Context is everything.
You stated that you had read “a half-dozen or so of the most popular TV/comic blogs and listened to 2 different podcasts.” DSeid pointed out that other critics almost universally praised the show and linked to a place where we could (if you wanted to) click on any number of reviewers to go see what they said. You responded with the audience scores but the audience scores have always been taken with a grain of salt. And even if we did accept the audience scores as a fair reflection of what the audience thought, the score wasn’t that bad.
Says the person who literally cherry-picked a single example of a non brigaded TV show as a defense of their argument. I picked a single example because you picked a single example. It certainly wasn’t innocuous, it was a mirror. You’ve just told on yourself.
It does nothing of the sort.
I picked the Mandalorian because it’s Disney+ and it’s been referenced a dozen times in this and the other threads on WandaVision. To be frank, I couldn’t give a fuck what the ratings are and I didn’t bring it up except to point out that DSeid was cherrypicking. That was never central to any point I was making. This fucking game of gotcha you’re trying to play is just deflecting.
…I picked Watchman because you were comparing it to other event streaming shows that are on now, and Watchman is another event streaming show that is currently available on HBO Max. Is that okay with you?
You are reaching to call this an example of cherry picking. It was a direct, testable rebuttal to an example of cherry picking by you.
What is it do you think I’m deflecting from?
If you think that’s apples-to-apples you’re being flat out dishonest.
Oy.
YOUR argument Omni was that your half dozen comic blog and podcast bad reviews was its being “universally panned” with “simmering dissatisfaction from a large contingent”.
Yet 100% on RottenTomatoes means nothing to you and the actual viewership metrics cited showing it gaining viewers steadily from week one on and kicking near Mandolarian level ass is ignored.
I’ve stated consistently that your experience is valid. We heard it in the thread the first several times you expressed it. Your attitude to some who literally stated how opinions vary and it’s okay for you to not like it while some of us do was to say
There is someone with a wrong opinion on the internet and you must correct them!!!
I have no idea how that, after mod instructions to drop it, was not warned but no mod I.
Negative reviews are welcome and valid experiences. It is perhaps even of interest to speculate WHY something is enjoyable to one and boring or anger inducing to another. Obviously we each bring something different to the table when we experience it for our miles to so vary. Not better or smarter, just different. I explained why I think it worked for me.
I don’t mind disagreeing. I disliked WW1984 and some loved it. Glad they enjoyed it. It can be a good discussion. So long as people don’t act like asses because others don’t agree with their take.