Well, Bush is scheduled to speak tonight at 6pm MST, which is where I live. Guess we are going to war. So my question for you debaters, is how will history remember this moment? Will it be remembered as the great liberating force of the Iraqis, or as the tyrants? Will we be remembered as starting to the final world war?
I’m thinking that history will remember this whole situation as either another Vietnam or a continuation of the devastating Persian Gulf War. I really hope that this is over that fast, because it would be a huge boost to the economy, and to morale. Plus, it would quell any opposition to the war.
So how will history remember us at this critical juncture in history? As saviors, or as conquerors?
Regardless of whether this war takes days or months, I fear that this will be remembered as the war that made wars of aggression legitimate again, reversing the advance that the Nuremberg Trials gave the cause of civilization.
I don’t think that the rest of the world is going to let go of this one and I fear that this is only the begining of things to come by this neo-conservative government.
I can only hope that in our raiding of Iraq, we shear the top off of a factory or hangar and find thousands of WMD or illegal missiles. At least maybe then we have the slight benefit of being able to say “told ya.”
That will be the best thing to come out if this war. That and the DOW is up over 200 points today. (just kidding).
It depends on how it turns out. If it turns out “well”, we’ll be judged well. If it turns out badly, we’ll be judged accordingly. My money is on the first outcome (well). It’ll be messy, but Iraq a year from now will be a much better place than it is now.
Why will this be “…remembered as the war that made wars of aggression legitimate again, reversing the advance that the Nuremberg Trials gave the cause of civilization.” You mean there was NOTHING else that has happened since WWII that has reverses the advance that the Nuremberg trials gave the cause of civilzation ? You can think of no dictators or govt’s that have behaved badly towards the world and its people ?
And anyone remember Panama in '89 ? Greneda in the early 80’s ? We have sent forces to many countries that didn’t “attack” the US. Why are people sooooooooooooooooooo up in arms over THIS particular war ? Bush made it clear that this (among MANY other reasons - and Alien has mentioned one of them) is but another front on the “war on terror” whether people believe him or not (and I don’t really want to debate that), that any state that supports terrorists or their organization are just as guilty as those that carry it out - this war shouldn’t suprise anyone.
If Saddam has/uses WMD, the U.S. will be mostly vindicated, I think.
If he doesn’t, the US government be seen as the greedy superpower who misled their own citizens to support an uneeded war that killed thousands.
Either way, any country in the world will now have the right to pre-emptively strike another with scant evidence and/or rationale. We’re setting a horrible precendent.
So how will history remember us at this critical juncture in history? As saviors, or as conquerors? ~ Alien2022
By “us”, Alien, I assume you mean the United States and the Coalition of Moral Purpose.
Well if so…
*** George W. Bush will be called the George Washington of Century Twenty-one.
*** History will mark Gulf War Two as the begining of a new world order where torture and tyranny and terror will no longer be tolerated by the Civilized Nations of Earth, the revamped and re-organized United Nations.
*** The French will still be known as nasal whining Frogs.
The significance of tonights event will be remembered as all of the facts are brought to light.
*Why was there an urgency to this war?
*Will they find evidence of WMD in Iraq?
*How is France figured in all of this?
*Will Saddam be killed?
*Will Israel be dragged into this?
*How long will this war be?
*Who controls Iraq after all of this is done?
When these and more questions are answered, then History can start to formulate its opinion.
Whatever happens, I know that history students of 2203 are going to have no end of trouble keeping the George Bushes straight.
I’m focusing on the trivial to keep from havinga nervous breakdown, mind you.
I’m reminded of something that Gwyn Dyer wrote in his book War: that there’s a really major war every fifty years or so; this pattern has held for the last four centuries. According to Dyer, this seems to be necessary to work out the various kinks the international order works itself into over the course of decades, resolving old tensions as it creates new ones. In hindsight, it seems almost like an unconscious imperative of nations.
Thus, I feel like there’s a good chance that it’s 1939 again. I don’t think they’re any useful parallels to draw with Hitler or Nazi Germany or Fascism; it’s just that we’re on the cusp of a world war of sorts, where everything will change radically, and the pattern for this century will be set. And it scares the shit out of me.
How the U.S. will be remembered will be determined not by the course of the war, but by it’s aftermath. Will we have a Versailles Treaty, or a divided Bagdad?
Well, of course they’ll find “evidence of WMD”. Right now, Airman Doors (or someone just like him) is loading some onto an aircraft to be taken in and “discovered” by one of those front-line journalists that are attached to certain combat-ready units.
The only other certainty is that any atrocities commited against civilians will be of course commited by those nasty Iraqi special forces disguised in US uniforms (as reported in the media a week or so ago)… our own highly trained intelligent bunch of red-neck soldiers out to kill “towel-heads” would never do such a thing.
Sadly I suspect I won’t live long enough to see the truth come out. I suspect that in the next few weeks, months and maybe years we’ll be getting a lot of disinformation from the US about how right they were. In thirty or forty years, we’ll start to see a lot more of the real story. Unless someone really fucks up, in which case we’ll see Bush and Rumsfeld on trial for war-crimes. BUt I doubt that.
Look, the real reasin for this war is that American confidence took a great hit on 9/11/2001. We need to fight someone we can beat, to restore national pride. We can’t find Osama bin Laden, and in any case a police action doesn’t appeal to the testosterone-filled. So like a bully in a barfight, the US has found someone else to hit.
This war will be remembered as the first of many in which one nation attacked another in a pre-emptive strike because they perceived a “threat” by the other nation. Pakistan or India will use this “reasoning” to launch a first-strike nuclear attack on the other. China will use this “reasoning” to invade Taiwan. North Korea will use this “reasoning” to launch an invasion of South Korea and maybe to fire some nuke-tipped missiles at the US. In other words, history will NOT judge this decision as being a wise one.
History will be written by the victors. I hope someone kick georgie’s ass and yet I want Saddam out, I would like to be a child again when everything was easy.
I also have no doubt that Saddam “will be acquired WMD” if he doesn’t have them now.
Given the Neo-conservative Lobby that has been pressuring for this thing for years, given that those people are now in power, there is a fair chance that this may replace the run-up to the Zulu War of 1879(date?) as the classic example of a private agenda chasing a pretext.
It may come in a close second to the Austrian ultimatum to Serbia (which, like Iraq, had also been a thorn in the side and a general embarrassment) that started WWI. Not that I think that “Operation Reckless Cowboy” is going to trigger a general blood letting. I do think that we are dealing with an ulterior motive looking for an excuse and with hubris and a “what ya’ going to do about it” attitude that pales Boss Tweed in comparison. If this goes off as we all seem to expect, our country forfeits any claim to moral superiority and reveals itself as an ordinary bully.
We can figure that the conduct of nations is the conduct of five year olds. Their only interest is immediate gratification of immediate wants, not needs, with no regard for long term consequences to our selves and disregard for the sensibilities and wants other members of the play group. Right now the US wants a cookie, and, by God, it will have it or throw a memorable temper tantrum to get it
Yeah right. Maybe they’ll plant the Roswell space aliens there too.
Yes, we all know what a great respecter of human rights the Iraqi military is. They would never lay a hand on their own civilians.
Yeah, I mean remember all the raping & pillaging the US military did in the first Gulf War? I’m sure Bush has ordered Lt. Kalley back into service for a special ‘child killer & puppy kicking’ unit.
Ignorant, prejudiced, hate-spewing jerks like you don’t.
I’d say it’s a fair bet that when the Iraqi prisons are opened, we will be reminded of Nazi Germany and the camps they had. Including medical experiments.
The bad thing is that we took so dam long to get to this, for some reason believing we had to go through the impotent debating club.
I predict that, 100 years from now, this war will be viewed as the pivotal moment that began the transformation of the Middle East from an area rife with oppressive, dictatorial thugs into a small cluster of democratic nations at last ready to participate in the international arena with civility and maturity. I further predict that GWB will be dead and buried before he sees a lick of credit from the self-described intellectuals. Just as Reagan will someday be seen as the Man Who Stood Against Communism, Bush will be seen as the Man Who Stood Against Radical Islam, and just like Reagan, Bush will be hated for it by the liberal left until the day he dies.
Jeff
