So I’ve just started playing Dawn of War II’s single-player campaign, and consulting guides online I’ve read some very confusing and seemingly contradictory advise about character builds. I have, thus far, worked out that the ideal squad tends to consist of the force commander, Tarkus, Avitus, and Thaddeus. Any spoiler-free advice about how I should build any of these characters would be appreciated, but I have one specific issue. Every guide I’ve read has had one of two things to say about the force commander: they assert either 1) he’s useless in melee due to his slow foot speed and lack of a jetpack, so he should focus on ranged weapons, or 2) he is an amazing melee fighter, and should be built to maximize his strength abilities.
So is either position accurate? Or are both arguments valid, and it simply boils down to what role I want the FC to occupy in my party?
Lack of a jetpack ? WTF ? Anyone who wrote that hasn’t played the game. Or maybe it’s that way in multiplayer ? I dunno, but in the single player campaign, not only can the Force Commander jump, he can also teleport. Both bits of wargear appear fairly early in the campaign, too.
Also, you don’t want to leave Cyrus on the bench - not just because he’s absurdly powerful, but because on some missions, he’s almost required, and if he’s still level 3 you’ll feel the pain. That goes for all 4 of them, really.
As for how to spec the boys, I don’t think there’re bad paths, but some abilities stand out :
Tarkus : frag grenades for energy instead of a fixed pool. Then just go nuts with them
Avitus : enemies killed in Focus Fire replenish energy - this essentially makes FF permanent except against solo bosses.
Thaddeus : none that I can think of - I usually go full health and melee and leave him to do his thing. If you go that route, unlock power weapons asap : that dinky chainsword just won’t do.
Cyrus : use items from stealth, and the special shots. This combo makes him just ridiculous at murderizing bosses or fixed positions.
Force Commander : all his paths are absurdly powerful. Any way you go, he’ll do damage in the 4 digits by the end of the game. You probably want to give him lots of health, though : he tends to go down rather fast when he’s mobbed, and unlike the others he doesn’t have a pair of meatshields around to go down whil he retreats. I usually keep him as a melee guy, simply because his toggled aptitudes are geared towards it, but unlocking heavy weapons makes him extremely powerful at range as well, not to mention Terminator armors. Assault Canons are nice :]. Plus, having the FC wield the Heavy Bolter/Missile Launcher lets you leave Avitus on the bench should you want to.
Also, while I initially figured the idea was bonkers, giving Thaddeus ranged talents and letting him equip bolters/flamers works on one condition : you spec Tarkus the other way around and let him equip melee weapons. Taunt works even better than jump packs to deal with melee threats, while jumping in the middle of a bunch of enemies in cover and going apeshit on them with a flamethrower is quite efficient :). Specing Avitus in melee is just dumb, though.
Also, you want to give each commander the “one more misc item slot” talent as fast as possible : not only does it give you more flexibility in gear, it’ll let you equip purity seals without much hassle, and those can be quite powerful.
Finally, a bit of a spoiler but once you get your three big objectives for the campaign, go for the “gather DNA” one and finish it first. You’ll see why and thank me ;).
Pretty much any way you decide to take any of the characters will be effective if you tailor your favorite squad around each other’s strengths and weaknesses and use them accordingly. I’d outright ignore any guide that says otherwise. Not only is the campaign not difficult enough to need min/maxing, but I’ve done two playthroughs with entirely different builds and group layouts and both were very successful in their own ways. Go with whatever suits your fancy.
And yes, the Force Commander is a monster either way My first time through I went for a full on volley fire approach with Avitus, Tarkus and the Dreadnaught my usual group all ranged specialized and the Commander filled the job of melee disruption. The theory was that he would be there just to charge enemies out of cover and scatter ones that got too close but he wound up just plain butchering a great many things by himself.
Hmm, okay, thanks for the advice!. One of Tarkus’s abilities that caught my eye was that if I went high enough on one of his trees, he could impart one of his tactical abilities (Slow movement, bullet resistance) on the whole party. Doing that wold neglect a lot of other cool stuff though- should I go for it, or will he be more useful if I focus on his individual skills? Also, one of my guys (I believe Tarkus) has a mid-level ability that improves the weaponry of his minions- is that worth it, or should I treat the flunkies like meat shields and focus on boosting the squad leaders over their mooks?
Tarkus has a big squad, his mooks are most of his punch. Also, his slow-advance ability has a major effect of also granting morale immunity, which is a very big deal when dealing with enemy heavy weapons squads, bosses, or (especially) the tyranids with the ranged spore bomb. Having it go force-wide is a huge boon even aside from its other benefits.
Alright, that makes sense-that was the general direction I was wandering in, so I’m glad it sounds like it’ll work.
The one other thing I was wondering was how I should balance Cyrus- obviously one squad member is going to progress more slowly, since I currently have five guys and four slots. My thinking is that Taddeus should be the one to miss out on some of the missions, since he’s fairly close to the Force Commander in type, and won’t create any big problems for me if he’s a little low some missions.
…he is useful, right? I actually much prefer Cyrus, but I had been focusing on Taddeus under the impression that he would be more useful in the long run as enemies got more dangerous.
Oh, and how is experience allocated? Does everyone get the same amount, or should I be paying careful attention to ensure that each squad gets equal chances to kill things in order to make them level in a reasonably equal way.
Thaddeus is… well, I find him problematic. On the one hand, jump jets let you deal with heavy weapons teams very easily, and once he gets a powerfist, he can deal with any vehicule you come across (esp. if you give him the melta bombs as well).
On the other hand, Tyranids are more numerous, better at melee than him, and he’s not very durable, so… Even Eldar meleers (Wailing Banshees, and the Psyker guards even more so) will give him a run for his money if you don’t stun them or support him with grenades (ranged fire is only 50% effective on folks locked in melee). You really have to be careful with him, and really focus on jumping in, beat up a few guys, jump on others, etc… The jump area knockback is what tips the scales in his favor IMO.
On the third hand, with a Terminator armor he does become death on legs, esp. in the Chaos Rising expansion if you go the corrupt route. Vehicules, Nobz, Carnifexes, Avatars, buildings - ain’t nothing three teleporting goons with Thunder Hammers can’t reduce to a smear on the pavement in 3 seconds flat.
AFAIK it equips one of his mooks with a plasma gun and makes them a bit more durable as well. Not bad, but nothing to write home about either.
As for experience, I wouldn’t worry about it too much - as long as you don’t completely neglect a commander, they’ll all reach the level cap before the campaign is over. Your mainstays (the Force Commander, and likely Tarkus) will do it about midway through. Also, know that the XP you get for dumping wargear is applied to all marines, not just the one you selected. Since you get a lot of useless gear over the course of the campaign, it adds up.
Hmm, how should I be using Cyrus? He can’t stand up to a stiff breeze, so I’ve been assuming that sniper rifle + waaaay the heck back from the line + maxed Range skill is the best way to go? A lot of his skills seem to focus on letting him replenish his squad and/or stealth and covertly rez companions, but I can’t imagine either of those trees being that useful.
Being able to stealth longer on a tank of energy and use items from stealth makes him a siege breaker of sorts, able to move in and throw satchel charges or snipe from complete safety, but he does have major survivability issues when he does come out of stealth. I never used him enough to get a good feel for what he can do because I didn’t like how much down time he had from having to creep around the map any time he took the slightest bit of damage - the teleport homer upgrade would go a long way towards fixing that, I suspect.
Thaddeus I did use a lot, though. He has some squishiness issues early on, but I beelined down the path that gave him temporary invulnerability after a jump, and that turns him into a potent attack force. The nastier melee bosses are a lot easier to deal with when you can distract them now and then into beating on invulnerable targets, but it does take a lot of babysitting to keep moving him in and out like that. I actually didn’t like putting terminator armor on him, it cranks his combat capability way up, but the teleport doesn’t disrupt enemies at all like the jump does.
Hmm, that makes sense. It looks like I get about 2/4 maxxed stats, or lower levels of all 4 stats in balance. I’m planning on pumping Avitus’s stamina until he gets Terminator armor, then giving him energy until his Focus Fire applies to everyone. After that, I guess I’ll just buff his Range up until I run out of points.
Force Commander is getting accessories and stuff, and then he’s gonna become a melee god-I’m planning on using him to break up packets of baddies, so I like the idea of getting his “every non-boss infantry dies in one hit” Battle Cry and then adding the skill that makes BC boost the whole party.
Thaddeus I haven’t met yet, but I think I’ll give him Invulnerability like you advise, and then try to get him the terminator armor.
Finally, Tarkus is gonna sprint straight for the skill that gives Tactical Stance to the whole party, and then boost up his own tactical stuff.
whew. So I know it won’t work all the time, but I’m planning for my general strategy to involve planting Avitus, using Thaddeus or Tarkus to lure the main force into the killzone, and then plant my force commander in the middle of the pack to keep them away from Avitus while he and Tarkus toggle Focus Fire and Tactical Stance. I don’t know if it’ll work, but I’m having fun trying.
Yep, he’s not a stand up fighter, but he’s got plenty of nice tricks up his sleeve. First and foremost, the remote controlled detpack has great range and does monstrous damage. One of these babies can gib an entire encounter before they know what’s going on, and wreck a boss. They’re even greater in defense missions where you know which way the enemy is coming. The regular demo packs are nice to throw around at suppressed or stunned groups, or bosses with predicatble patterns too.
The smoke grenade upgrade (second melee skill) is one way to stun-lock a boss, and it makes him viable with a shotgun. Prior to that, yeah, even though the shotgun special shot is good I would keep him with a sniper rifle or bolter. But once you’ve got it, decloak next to someone (stunning him), plug him with the explosive shot (sending him on his back), throw a flashbang (more stun), and finally recloak (oops, I stunned you again !). Meanwhile, the rest of the boys are unloading truckfulls of ammo into the guy… It’s a bit micromanagement heavy, but then Avitus and Tarkus don’t need all that much babysitting, so it evens out.
The sniper rifle OTOH is great against Tyranids who go feral when you snipe the synapse creatures hanging around the back, some bosses, and really shines once you have unlocked the last skill in the Ranged tree which makes anyone accurate when shooting at Cyrus’s designated target.
Avitus kinda sucks in Termie armor, frankly. By all means, feel free to experiment, but his Assault Canon is a bit underwhelming IMO - for some reason, it’s very good at dealing with single threats, but sucks against crowds. Compared to a good heavy bolter at least. Also his squadmates go from lugging heavy bolters to pea shooters
It does make him a bit less of a glass cannon, and the powerfist gives him a prayer in melee, but generally I think he’s better in regular armor. Thaddeus and the FC benefit a lot more from the upgrade (esp. since both get to teleport around, which offsets the slow movement speed of Termie armor).
I usually either go all in with Terminator honors or stay away. (They tend to destroy all available cover) Avitus does a lot of damage with the assault cannon, but only against a single target and he becomes sluggish to manouver. His inability to take cover also reduces the benefit of Terminator armour.
The FC can go both ways, but I usually prefer to keep him in melée mode. Let him hang back a bit and pick up anyone Tarkus or Thaddeus lets slip by. He’s the one best kept alive, since his healing and boosting abilities makes him invaluable for a long fight.
I usually don’t play Tarkus - too micro-heavy - but when I do, I prefer him to be ranged since most mobs and bosses do less damage at range than they do in melée. Just Taunt and Frag, Taunt and Frag. If he’s not pulling, he should be dealing with side mobs.
Cyrus is also a bit micro heavy, but if you’ve got a meatshield-based squad (FC + Tarkus + Thaddeus for instance) he’s invaluable as a shaker. That said, he only gets into his own if you take your time and prepare the battlefield; if you’re trying for the full 5/5 in all categories, he is definitely a drag on the speed factor. His fragility also means he’s best left on the sidelines of boss fights if you don’t want to risk your survivability factor. He’s invaluable in defence scenarios, though - just load him up with boom and let him sit tight in cover.
Has anybody had problems with the audio stuttering? I just went to play today, and it’s almost unplayable: the graphics are fine, but everything from speech to FX to music stutters several times a second, which is kinda annoying.
Can’t say I’ve had that. The only problem DoW2 causes on my machine is my graphics card heating up a lot, which causes its fans to go haywire every few minutes or so. Loud and causes lots of vibrations. It’s like having a desk rumble pack whenever a particularly splendid explosion goes off
Usually when I get sound problems in games though, it’s caused by the EAX setting and/or reverb. Might want to check those options off if, like me, you’re using a cheapo on-board sound card.
Having dusted off the game and given Cyrus a fair shake, I have to say he’s better than I gave him credit for. The remote bomb kit in particular is incredibly potent and between that, satchel charges and sniping the synapse leaders, he makes short work of all the dug-in tyranid missions. If you’ve got a ready supply of ammo crates around, he can lop giant chunks off a bosses hitpoints with virtually no risk at all. He can even snipe Carnifex to excellent result, despite how well they shrug off everything else short of anti-tank weaponry.
Thaddeus is also a monster after the game patches have changed Chapter’s Fury. He can now spam Jump and Merciless Strike repeatedly in every other engagement, and lays waste to everything from unit swarms to fortifications, completely invulnerable in the process.
I’m a bit irked by how the random loot drops so massively change your capability, though. I’d been intending to make my force commander a full-on ranged specialist, but for the better part of the game it simply would not provide me with a heavy weapon for him to use…and then coughed up a blue-quality rocket launcher with a ridiculously powerful set of stats that turned him instantly from a handicap into an artillery piece. Meanwhile I’ve gotten 5 dreadnought claws and 6 plating (including a level 20 blue) drops but not a single assault cannon, so again I’m forced to use my ranged-specialized unit as a melee bludgeon.
I’m still in the very beginning but I love cyrus- Thaddeus seems to need just as much micro-managing at the lower levels, but when I micro cyrus it actually feels like I’m getting stuff done.
I’m actually re-installing it right now- I’m hoping that deleting and re-downloading it will fix the stuttering audio problem.
In the meanwhile, I guess it’s back to Dawn of War I
Okay, now that I have the tech stuff dealt with this is a lot of fun…
…but f&k* the “no loading a saved game to try again” rule. f*&k it with a rusty axe- I just wasted 2 freaking hours building up my group, and because of one freaking mistake I have to restart the whole damn game. >_<
Incidentally, I noticed that there’s a foundry on the planet I do the Defend Communications Array mission on early on. Am I supposed to somehow fight my way to the foundry and take it during the defense mission, or will I get another chance to secure it later on?
ETA : you’ll get another chance at the foundry. The game only has a dozen maps or so, which will be used again and again with varying objectives, enemies and playing conditions. Don’t sweat it.
Well I had already lost a few Fury points by letting guys go down in earlier missions, and since I wasn’t aware that I would get another chance at the foundry, I sent half of my team forward to capture it. The rub was that I failed the mission in its last seconds with 1 half-dead orc squad remaining, and I didn’t wanna deal with the loss of the array. >_<
You’ll get plenty of opportunity to capture all the locations. In fact, you can get both of them the first time a zone opens up. There’s absolutely no penalty for aborting a mission, except that it makes all the time-limited ones (assuming you even have any) tick down one day. You can drop in, push your way to one of the strategic points and capture it, then pull out, redeploy, and capture the other. You even get to keep all the XP and wargear you pick up in the process, so if you really want to min/max you’d repeat missions as needed to get a perfect outcome. It’s something of a weakness of the campaign game design.
Plus…the locations aren’t really that useful. The artillery strike isn’t any better than a satchel charge and the bolter turrets are only particularly useful on defense missions as bosses tend to one-shot them. You can generally get more utility by using grenades, satchel charges, or other kit, that while being slightly less potent, can be replenished by the ample supply of ammo crates and wind up having three or four times as many uses. The only one of the strategic items I really use heavily is the Orbital Bombardment, which actually is powerful enough to justify its limitation. Instantly killing two Eldar mechs, along with everything else around them, even on the highest difficulty level, is one heck of a get-out-of-jail-free card.
My first time through I went for a full on volley fire approach with Avitus, Tarkus and the Dreadnaught my usual group all ranged specialized and the Commander filled the job of melee disruption. The theory was that he would be there just to charge enemies out of cover and scatter ones that got too close but he wound up just plain butchering a great many things by himself.