Whatever you wish to do regarding YOUR religion is YOUR business. So far, so good, right?
Whatever I wish to do with MY religion (or lack thereof) is MY business, 'K?
I do not presume to represent YOUR soul, and you do not presume to represent MINE.
Gottit?
Good.
Pray/worship/practice rituals as you wish - just leave me out of it.
(I’ll let you know if/when I desire to be included in your practices, and you can let me know when you want me to include you in mine - why is this concept so difficult? Do you really believe that I am incapable of caring for my own soul? Watch how you answer that - the theological implications are mind-boggling)
Dammint, gobear, that’s my line. (or at least the one I use in many other debates like this - big bill 'o rights advocate that I am). Anyway, it wasn’t your posts that raised my ire.
Luminum, I think that lurking some more would might prove “illuminating”.
Why? Because you don’t seem to realize that what these people are doing does not impact you in any way. Do strangers praying for your well being really bother you that much? They are not asking for you to do anything.
Question for you: How is the the concept of religious tolerance so hard to understand?
I assumed shes was a republican based on her low quality of argument. My bad. Whats the difference between a Hard-line Republican and a Hard-line communist? economics. We wern’t taking economics, so I had no way of knowing.
HAHAHA, arguing tolerance for people who have no IDEA what the word means, thats a good one. Maybe you should just go for the “Ignore them” argument, you’re gonna wade into a pile with the tolerance arguement. These the same type of people that would try to convert jewish children, without the parents knowedge.
Well, gobear, we actually do have several gangs like that, one or two of which even boast my membership. What makes me laugh is the appalling hackwork they made of NYC public transportation. Everyone knows you can’t get to fucking Coney Island on the 1 train. Sheesh.
Luminun, these people have shown no evidence of intolerance in this particular instance. Goofy end of the world beliefs, yes. But not intolerance. At least not here. They are praying for our safety.
Maybe “ignore them” isn’t such a bad idea after all, hmm?
Mostly I was replying to your “shut up”, but still, most of the people there were making fun of them. You say “shown no evidence of intolerance in this particular instance”, is an admission that they are intolerant. Should I ignore my experience with these sort of people, and let them walk all over the me? I think not. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
This quote is the jist of he entire argument, and probably the reason it was posted. They will try to grab credit, ignoring all the work other people have done. It will be hard to ignore them then. Another guy was just complaining about traffic, and you commented on that. Everyone has a RIGHT to bitch about dumbasses who screw up traffic, hell I do it everyday.
As far as them praying for my soul, or praying for my safety, I really don’t think its needed. They should pray for their so-called leaders, and thier sins. Which is another thing I do not like about Xtians. An axe-murdering-child-raping-wife-beating man will go to heaven, but a man who spends his life doing good, but happens to be a buddist, will not. A load of crap. The bible contadicts itself so many times. I’m wearing cotton right now, which is a sin.
These people should get off their praying asses, and try to help. Looking for bags that are laying around, helping with security will probably do more then praying, and adding to the load of the security force, which will probably already be overloaded.
People have to stop asking “Why did god let this happen?” and take a good, long hard look and say “Why did I let this happen?”
I usually avoid these threads, but this one caught my eye. I tend to agree with Beeblebrox. These people seem fairly harmless…nuts, but harmless. What does it matter if they gather to pray for a safe July 4th? Hell, it might even help.
As far as them taking credit if there is no attack, so what? I could claim the attack was averted because I rubbed by magic left nut and did a little dance. Who cares what they say? Everyone knows that if everything goes peacefully, it’s not because of one group praying or one guy’s magic nut…it’s because we all worked together to make it that way.
I don’t really care if they do. I was more against some of Beeblebrox posts that people should “shut up” about it. I should be tolerant of it and not say anything about it or be “cynical” about it.
As for them taking credit for it, maybe they will, maybe they won’t. I think its more bothersome that they will attribute it to the power of “Jeebus”, instead of the security force. Fundie channels like CBN love this sort of thing. Rakes the cash in from the faithful masses.
Good intentions would be better directed at helping the security force, looking out for left bags, or suspisous people,instead of adding to the masses that they will have to protect. Or adding to the traffic problems in Washington D.C.
It just seems to me that people have to wake up, and realize that “big brother” is not going to save them at the last minute. The only people who can save us, or help us, is, well,… us.
I think gobear hit the nail on the head with this: “They are free to pray; I’m free to bitch about it; and you’re free to bitch about my bitching.” No one should be forced to “shut up”. Everyone has their own opinion and should be free to express it, popular or not. The problem starts when emotions flare and the discussion degenerates into a screaming insult-slinging hissy fit. I think the calls for people to “shut up” come more from frustration than anything else.
Eh, who cares? Let 'em think what they want. You are certainly not going to convince a fundie otherwise, so why work yourself up about it? I’m sure lots of people will take credit for it. Like I said earlier, we all know it was a group effort, so let the nuts sit in the corner and scream “It was me!” all they want.
Well, I’m sure that if they see anything suspicious, they will alert the authorities right away. Who knows, one of these guys may see something that helps out the security forces. About the traffic problem, I’m not sure how much impact they will have. Traffic will be a nightmare regardless of whether they attend or not.
What do you mean by “big brother”? Is it “big brother” as in the government or “big brother” as in God? I definitely agree with your last sentence.
I really don’t see the difference between a large prayer session and a sit in for peace, or a something like that.
Would you rather they were out there picketing funerals, or protesting against civil rights?
No, they’re just making a peaceful prayer session. It’s harmless. It might annoy you because it might back up traffic. That’s it.
Get the FUCK over yourselves1
Luminin, FWIW, I am a leftist, liberal, semi-socialist democrat-sort of a New Dealer type, like Tip O’Neill, who believes in freedom of religion, speech, thought, etc. I am also an extremely liberal, liberation-theology Catholic.
And around here, that is VERY well-known.
Your generalizations about the Catholic church are pathetic, if not outright offensive. Ever hear of Oscar Romero? Frances of Assisi? Bartholomew Des Les Casas? What about Tip O’Neill, or the Jesuit universities?
Pull your head out of your ass before you start flapping your jaw.
Get the FUCK over yourself, missy! The religious weirdos have a right to march and pray ostentatiously; we have have a right to bitch about it. You may, in turn criticize us for our bitchery, but don’t even suggest that we not speak our minds.
Um, gobear not to be impertinent or anything but shouldn’t you be used to various protest groups clogging up DC? Why single these particular folks out? Sure, they’re obnoxious nuts but just take a deep breath and ignore them. Let them pray for your soul (couldn’t hurt) if it makes them happy and figure out another way to get to Dupont Circle. I just don’t see why you’re getting all worked up here and I certainly don’t want you giving yourself a heart attack over this, your Geriatric Highness.
The Inquisition (Let’s begin)
The Inquisition (Look out sin)
We have a mission to convert the Jews (Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew)
We’re gonna teach them wrong from right.
We’re gonna help them see the light
and make an offer that they can’t refuse. (That those Jews just can’t refuse)
Confess, don’t be boring.
Say yes, don’t be dull.
A fact you’re ignoring:
It’s better to lose your skull cap than your skull (or your govalt!)
The Inquisition (what a show)
The Inquistion (here we go)
We know you’re wishin’ that we’d go away.
But the Inquisition’s here and it’s here to stay!
“I was sitting in a temple. I was minding my own business.
I was listening to a lovely Hebrew mass.
Then these Papus persons plungered and they throw me in a dungeon and they shove a red hot poker up my ass.
Is that considerate? Is that polite?
And not a tube of Preperation H in sight!”
“I’m sittin’ flickin’ chickens and I’m lookin’ throught the pickins’ and suddenly thes goyim pull down valls.
I didn’t even know them and they grabbed my by the stoghum and started playing ping pong with my balls!
Ooh, the agony! Ooh, the shame!
To make my privates public for a game?”
The Inquisition (what a show)
The Inquisition (here we go)
We know you’re wishin’ that we’d go away.
But the Inquisition’s here and it’s here to-
“Hey Toquemada, walk this way.”
“I just got back from the Auto-de-fe.”
“Auto-de-fe? What’s an Auto-de-fe?”
“It’s what you oughtn’t to do but you do anyway.”
Will you convert? “No, no, no, no.”
Will you confess? “No, no, no, no.”
Will you revert? “No, no, no, no.”
Will you say yes? “No, no, no, no!”
Now I asked in a nice way, I said, “Pretty please.”
I bent their ears, now I’ll work on their knees!
“Hey Toquemada, walk this way. We got a little game that you might wanna play, so pull that handle, try you’re luck.”
“Who knows, Toq, you might win a buck!”
“How we doin’, any converts today?”
“Not a one, nay, nay, nay.”
“We flattened their fingers, we branded their buns!
Nothing is working! Send in the nuns!”
The Inquisition, what a show.
The Inquisition, here we go.
We know you’re wishin’ that we’d go away!
So all you Muslims and you Jews
We got big news for all of yous:
You’d better change your point of views TODAY!
'Cause the Inquisition’s here and it’s here to stay!
Are you seriously comparing someone praying to Ronald Reagan?
That’s funny.
Actually, most of the people who disagreed with Reagan’s policies were your liberal Catholics-his biggest political menace was Tip O’Neill-Irish Catholic.
Remember when those four churchwomen were killed in El Salvador, and Reagan’s admins called them commies?
Yeah, nuns trying to run road blocks. Communist archbishops.
No. You are saying save your ire for something big. I am saying that nothing big will ever happen. Its all a few small steps here and there.
Get rid of this law, remove this regulation. Before you know it, your wondering what happened.
In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me -
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
Do you really want to get into a pissing war about the catholic church with me? The sainted church isn’t as holy as you think, and all we will come out with is crap on each other.
