Last night, returning from a Halloween party, two NYC transit cops stopped a friend who I was with for wearing roller skates in the subway station. They ordered us both to the top of the stairs. Then they ordered me to go back down the stairs. I said I’d rather stay at the top of the stairs and then they threatened to arrest me, so I went down. They proceeded to take my friend into the transit police station so I went upstairs and waited outside. The officer came outside the office and threatened me again if I didn’t go downstairs. This time I refused and he gave up. Was I disobeying a lawful order? What is included in this category? Do police have the power to order you to go to a certain place? Where can I learn about what powers the NYPD has in these circumstances?
New York Statutes and Consolidated Laws:
http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi?COMMONQUERY=LAWS
They can order you to do anything. The question you’re asking is if they have the power to arrest you for not following such an order. (nitpick I know, but it’s a distinction that matters to me)
What type of stairs are we talking about, was he telling you to leave the subway station or, what?
Was the police officer asking you to wait inside the subway station and you were not doing so?
Sorry, just not 100% clear on what the situation was.
Uh, to be clear my question is whether they gave a “lawful order”? This is a legal term used in the statutes.
It was a staircase down to the platform within the larger station. He wasn’t asking me to leave the station, just go back down the stairs (which he had just ordered me to ascend). From the bottom of the stairs, I would not be able to observe the rest of the interaction. I don’t think he ordered me to do so in order to detain me, he just didn’t want me standing near them. Perhaps it is SOP for an officer to send everyone in a party that is not being arrested/ticketed out of viewing range during an arrest?
A little broad, don’t ya think? 
Besides, I’m not even sure exactly what I’m searching for. I’m pretty sure that statute doesn’t define “lawful order.”
Is your friend all right?
Yeah, she’s fine. But I wish I had been able to witness the conversation. According to her, they threatened to arrest her for wearing the skates (which is a no-no for cops when you’re not doing something they can arrest you for). They were also just generally dicks about the whole thing. She knew these guys were just doing their jobs and was cooperative (although they could have just written her a damn ticket instead of detaining her for 20 min.). There was no reason they couldn’t have had a calm professional interaction.
My commandeering report talks about police orders and the cases involving lawful order statutes: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcommandeer.html
Were you guys under the influence? If you were exhibiting behaviour indicative of intoxication or other signs of dangerour or erratic behaviour, the cops might have been just interested in keeping you at a distance.
I don’t have a cite for you, but my WAG is that a “lawful order” is any order that (1) does not require you to do something that is in violation of the law, and (2) does not infringe on your civil or constitutional rights. It seems to me that asking you to stand in a certain place while they decide what they do about a possible breach of municipal law is a lawful order.
It is unfortunate when cops are unnecessarily belligerent, but sometimes they might be justified if there is a reason to be concerned about the behaviour of someone they are questioning. That’s why it’s relevant whether you and your friend were exhibiting signs of intoxication or other erratic behaviour.
What do you mean? Is it an offense to wear roller skates in the subway or isn’t it? What did they say they would charge her with?
You mean you would prefer to have a public record citation rather than just be delayed for 20 minutes? So what would they have cited her with? Is it a violation of municipal law to wear roller skates or isn’t it?
If they want to be jerks, they can arrest you for something like “disturbing the peace” or “disorderly conduct”. It doesn’t matter if the charge is dropped at a later date, it lets them take you off the street and put you in a holding cell.
I believe that when a police officer has stopped someone for cause it is legitimate for them to order the persons companions to stay “over there” away from the scene. The officer only wants to deal with one person at a time. I’m not so sure about telling someone to go back down into the subway station.
The police cannot order you to do anything illegal or immoral.
Are there any mitigating circumstances you’ve left out that might have stimulated the cops to seem belligerent? What were you dresses as, for the Halloween party? Something like Abner Louima?
Sailboat
My point was that they may in fact threaten or “order” a person to do something which they are not really supposed to, and have not been entirely unknown to do so. It is questionable, as ascenray pointed out, whether wearing roller skates is actually an offense or not, but as the OP says, they threatened to arrest her for it.
But as long as “lawful order” is a legally defined concept, that’s fine.
Looks like it is:
Are the police empowered to issue citations for violations of transit rules? If so, what is the OP suggesting that the police did wrong, besides (possibly) act like jerks? (We have that only third hand, anyway.) The friend was in violation of transit authority rules and if the police have the responsibility to enforce those rules, then it seems to me that “You, companion of the person who is in violation of this rule, stand over there while we decide whether to issue a citation or take other action” is a perfectly reasonable order.
I saw a couple of cops being really abusive to 2 young men they pulled over in front of my house. I went out when I hears the noise and immediately saw the kids were in trouble. So, I wanderered around by my front tree within 50 feet oe so. One of the cops spotted me and orderered me to go back in the house. I pretended I didnt understand. The cop was really screaming but I wasnt going anywhere. He finally calmed down and wrote them a ticket.
I will second that. Also, if they are in the process of investigating a crime, they can arrest you for “obstruction” if you do not obey any reasonable order that they give. If they tell you sit down and be quiet, you should sit down and be quiet or else risk arrest. The charge may be dropped at trial–you can mull that over while sitting in the tank overnight.
Of course statutes vary, but most places have such laws against interferring with or obstructing an officer in the performance of his duties.