No one knows anything for certain about highly classified operations, other than people like the president — and of course, people he chooses to tell.
Nobody knows who was on the grassy knoll, therefore it was definitely the CIA.
Regards,
Shodan
I haven’t said anything about definity. Do you have a cite that “believe” conveys some statement of fact? As I said plainly, “The only thing we know for sure is that McCain made political hay out of his trip to a foreign country, a technique he learned from the man whose policies he seeks to continue.” You just want to change the subject because you don’t want to deal with actually defending McCain.
What political hay did he make?
And how do we know that?
I trust you would see the problem plainly if I posted a GD thread entitled: Is Obama Hiding His Muslim Sympathies? If such a thread included the line Topic for debate: how can we be sure Obama is who he claims to be? Is he the ultimate Islamic ‘sleeper agent?’
I would rightly be vilified for such a post, because, in the guise of asking questions and offering topics for debate, it makes certain assertions which are not supported by any facts at all. It reverses (or tries to) the burden of proof, by essentially requiring that my outlandish claims be debunked, instead of recognizing it’s for the person making the claim to provide some quanta of proof.
Your OP commits a similar sin. You say:
Indeed, the thread’s title is “Was the hostage rescue engineered to benefit McCain?”
Yet in support of this “issue for debate” you have provided zero evidence that the White House had anything to do with McCain’s presence during the event, and scant evidence that the U.S. had much to do with the operational elements of the rescue.
When pressed on this lack, you suggest a classic fallacy: argument from ignorance. We don’t know what happened, so this story must be true. No. It’s for you to demonstrate at least some evidence of the truth of your claims, whereupon those so inclined may rebut your evidence if it’s possible to do so.
It was announced at least as early as June 11:
I’m guessing the OP won’t be satisfied until we disprove the conspiracy theory.
Since this is impossible, he’s just gonna have to stew until the next loopy idea comes along to distract him.
Ack, I’m dumb. The Defense rests.
I haven’t said any such thing. What I said was:
Because of what we know about this administration — its willingness to lie, to trample on civil liberties, to deplete American military resources and treasury in the pursuit of personal spite — I cannot help but believe that it is well within the realm of possibility.“Realm of possibility” does not equal “must be true.”
I’d be satisfied if McCain supporters would debate the question, rather than just call me stupid.
You want us to debate whether this is within the realm of possibility? Unlikely. Your own source said this had been in the planning for 5 years. We know McCain announced his visit at least by June 11. Coordinating this to the day would be extremely difficult and, as I mentioned above, potentially dangerous as a campaign event since these types of rescues are very tricky and prone to failure.
It’s certainly possible, in the sense that almost anything is possible, but seems highly unlikely.
Oh, and this would be odd timing to try and give McCain a boost. A big vacation week for people, and with the election so far away. Why not wait until Sept or Oct?
Yes, Liberal. But what under the heavens is NOT “within the realm of possibility?” It’s within the realm of possibility that Barack Obama is a sleeper agent, poised to betray this country to the Islamic hordes once in a position of power. But since there’s no real evidence in support of that cockamamie theory, it’s not appropriate to offer it up, even “for discussion.”
OK. I’ll debate this proposition if you’ll debate the Islamic sleeper agent theory.
Deal?
I’m actually a Hillary supporter, though I’d vote for Obama as consolation.
That is, if I was American.
My point being that some non-McCain supporters (well, me, for example) think you’re 'round the bend on this one. What’s next, gonna accuse him of killing Vince Foster?
A square circle. A rational square root of two. In fact, an infinite number of things.
I think what’s next will be yet some other coincidence of synchronicity between the McCain campaign and the White House that falls in line with the ones cited in the OP. I don’t know whether they would murder anyone, but we’re talking about people with sub-Nixonian post-Watergate ethics here.
And who is this man, who invented the practice of going abroad and making a bog ole’ hoopla about it? Julius Caesar? Neville Chamberlain? Jimmy Carter?
Enquiring minds wish to know.
Since you apparently haven’t noticed, the question has already been debated. The consensus: It’s not terribly likely, and your lack of evidence isn’t very compelling.
And speaking as someone who voted for Obama in the primaries, plans to vote for him in November, and finds himself pleasantly surprised at the prospect of voting for someone rather than settling for the lesser of two evils: The premise for this debate was indeed stupid.
Actually, both of those things are eminently possible. Not in normal space, no, but certainly possible some very specific fields. The former becomes possible in black holes as space itself becomes warped and distorted. And the second is quite possible in non-normal mathematical systems.
I am willing to agree that the rescue-was-engineered-to-help-McCain theory is more likely that a rational square root of two.
No one has called you stupid in this thread. Not the few McCain supporter here, nor the many Obama supporters. And note that none of the latter group has been convinced by your argument yet. This has not been a partisan attack on the thread topic, nor has it it been a personal attack on you. The personal attack is being conducted in the Pit, as it should be.