Morons often have sunny dispositions because they are stupid.
My wife was out with our 6 year old daughter at Starbucks the other day. Our daughter is very chatty and Starbucks is always a bit of a negotiation as her eyes are bigger than her stomach and she tends to want everything she sees to very exacting specifications.
“I’ll have a cake pop and a brownie and one of those fruit pouches and a hot chocolate with extra whip cream but it needs to be a bit cooler than ‘children’s hot’”
Anyhow my wife was telling me some woman came up to her and was like “wow…I’m exhausted just watching her!”. Now I’m sure she didn’t mean anything by it other than our daughter has a lot of energy. And my wife tends to pathologically avoid conflict of any kind (except with me I suppose).
In any event, I told my wife that if it were me, I would have responded something like “If you find my little girl so exhausting, I’d be happy to put you to sleep, bitch!”
Maybe too much in the other direction.
The point is don’t fucking comment to people about their appearance or their children or really anything.
If you’re a dude complementing a woman, there is no version of that that doesn’t translate to “I want to fuck you.”
And with regards to the OP, never give someone a complement that you would give to a small furry pet. It’s condescending and I’m sure Lisa knew what she was doing
I’ve had a snow white Santa beard for some time now. I don’t trim it for the same reason I don’t shave, I’m lazy. On a very bad day I was at a grocery store and a young mother walked by me, telling her kid, “oh look, Santa is going shopping”.
I’d ordinarily ignore her but on that particular day my reply was, “fuck off”.
Back around age 35 I used to have a large beard. It was more dirty blond than white, as was my long hair. And I’m skinny. Much more ZZ Top than Santa.
I had a Viking hat made of sheepskin. The cap was fluffy/wooly on the inside and out, while the horns were skin-out, wool inside. For Christmas I homebrewed up some twinkling lights on my horns and hung 1" shiny glass ornaments from the base of the horns sorta like dangly earrings.
With that hat switched on all I had to do was smile at some kid and Moms would run screaming the other way dragging their little darlings. No problem with inappropriate approaching from kids or Moms. I was trying to be silly festive, not scary, but apparently the net effect was somewhere between Chester the Molester and Insane Clown Posse.
@vbob might adopt a similar trick as suits his personality.
Obviously this is taking things to the extreme, but if Lisa had said “You speak very well for an African-American” she might have thought she was making a compliment. She may have been completely honest and believed that it would be well received. But she’d be so completely wrong that very few people would defend it.
This isn’t quite to that degree, but it’s essentially the same thing. It’s dismissive, insulting, and should be nipped in the bud hard. Lisa is very out-of-touch.
They are there because the OP thinks they are relevant. It speaks to their having recognition that saying that to someone with achondroplasia would be outrageous and to someone of a specific ethnic group prone to short stature potentially racist. But if not in one of those protected groups? Just someone who is a very short petite cleaning woman? Why would it be bad then?
That, to be blunt, cluelessness, by “Lisa” only marginally more than the OP, is what shocks most of us.
You’re classifying a person in authority calling an extremely short person so cute and tiny as “harmless” is also hard to comprehend. Having to live with demeaning comments likely fairly frequently, from those in positions of power relative to you? That is not “harmless”.
And if you need to be convinced that power dynamics are a factor here, do you think “Lisa” would have failed to realize it was inappropriate to say that to a new male chief above her?
I suspect there must be something in the tone that is undermining their complements.
Your comment reminded me of a day long long ago when I was at a Friendly’s restaurant with my children when they were tweens. We had an enjoyable meal as they played quietly and had the banter that brother and sister have.
An older woman approached me near the end of our meal and complemented me on the kids’ behavior. It made my day and put a smile on my face!
She didn’t know that my wife had been bedridden for several months, being fed a substance called TPN via a tube that went in her arm and led to her heart. I was taking the kids out to restaurants frequently at the time because I wasn’t adept at preparing meals myself and I wanted to have some fun with the kids. But the lady didn’t need to know that!
(wife improved soon after and life returned to normal)
Our situations differ, so I am certain there is something about the kind of comments you receive that is offensive, and I fear doing something like your lady did without knowing. I have always enjoyed positive comments and would encourage folks to call out good behavior when they see it, but it concerns me that I might complement someone and not know that I am being offensive!
Something doesn’t have to be physically dangerous to be bad.
Something doesn’t have to meet some imaginary bar of “must be at least as bad as this” to be bad.
Something that happens once in a blue moon, and something that happens damn near every time one goes out the door, do not have to meet the same level of badness criteria in order to be worth dealing with.
"Petty annoyance"s, if they happen often enough, do really matter.
And part of the reason they really matter (the other part being that a chronic irritation, to use a metaphor, can cause unhealing major wounds even if the same stimuli once a year doesn’t even cause a scrape) is that they indicate underlying major attitudes. And the underlying major attitudes of commenting on somebody’s unusual looks are both that other people’s bodies are fair game to the commenter, and that the unusual looking people are Odd and Other.
I think you need to reread the post I originally responded to in order to understand what I’m saying. I have agreed that people who comment on the physical characteristics of others are idiots, and even suggested a response that lets them know it isn’t acceptable behavior.
What is too much for me is the idea that a disproportionate response (as in, lashing out in pent-up anger), or feeling like a victim, is okay. Good grief people, get over yourselves. We all have our crosses to bear. Life isn’t perfect. That’s no excuse for feeling sorry for oneself or justifying nasty behavior. To reiterate my original statement, I was born with pathological myopia, which I’m going to guess is probably more inconvenient than being tall. Certainly my coke-bottle glasses caused many a peer to comment, give me nicknames like “Magoo,” etc.
Yeah, poor me. Shrugging it off, handling commentary with grace and humor, not dwelling on it - that’s how I chose to respond. Feeling sorry for myself or being nasty to commentators was not the most mature or healthy answer.
I’lm gonna shut up now. I accept that you disagree, and while it may not seem like it, I think I understand where you are coming from. All I ask is a sense of perspective.
Which is the tricky part. The person making the comment is usually clueless not malicious. Ideally there is a gentle correction. Telling a woman who used your looking Santaoid as part of the holiday fantasy with her kid to “fuck off” in front of her kid, just as random example, is … problematic.
Again, it takes more skill than I personally have. And if I was to err I’d err on the side of less aggressive than more. But easy for me to say. Sure I’m short and bald but mostly comments to me come from little kids with parents amusingly horrified that their darling just said that, relieved that I react with humor clearly not offended.
And I am not on the low end of power dynamics the majority of my time.
Others may have some pent up rage for understandable cause.
It all boils down to, should perfectly nice, well-meaning, friendly people get to behave badly if they don’t mean anything by it?
No, they should not. And yes, I can only say that with a hefty dose of hypocrisy, because I’ve certainly spoken without thinking the whole interaction through, way more often than I’d like to admit.
Lashing out at people in most cases is not the appropriate response, no. But hundreds of tiny little cuts add up and can cause just as much damage as one giant stab. Telling people to “get over themselves” because someone, somewhere else, had something worse happen to them, is not appropriate either.
It sounds to me like you are claiming that the nine zillionth time some moron says “how’s the weather up there?” the impact is the same as being the victim of, say, a wildfire that destroyed all your possessions and your neighborhood. Maybe that isn’t what you mean - I don’t want to put words into your mouth. But if it is, I respectfully disagree.
I am not claiming it’s wrong to be exasperated at constant, unwanted commentary on any aspect of one’s appearance. Just that a measured response, and not dwelling on things that can’t be changed, is better than feeling like a victim.
I’m just repeating myself, I know, so I should probably go away now.
@DSeid - I agree with your post. The last sentence - “Others may have some pent up rage for understandable cause” - seems worth expanding on. Is it possible that when people respond to annoying but not intentionally malicious commentary on what should be value-neutral matters like height with extreme anger, their anger comes from more than just exhaustion at hearing the same lame jokes repeatedly? I think that’s possible.
And it is also possible that it was the thousandth cut, the straw that exceeded the dromedarial vertebral carrying capacity.
Or that they have had to tolerate it, being on the lower side of the power dynamic or socially constrained, many times before, but this time such didn’t apply.
Think of the OP. “Sylvia” was a cleaning woman dealing with a police officer helping her out. She has to just smile no matter how offensive it is. But maybe she’s primed to respond bigger when a person in a grocery store says that as they offer her unsolicited help getting something from a shelf?
That part makes a difference. In terms of the need I see to keep things in perspective, I’m talking about value-neutral (or even seen as good) characteristics like height, in a discussion among equals.
Where there is a power differential, or where the characteristic in question is generally considered a disadvantage or disability, then I think smoldering anger is more justifiable.
Anybody familiar with the British Whitehall Studies or Sapolsky’s Baboon Studies (17min read):
After tracking thousands of civil servants for decades, Marmot was able to demonstrate that between the ages of 40 and 64, workers at the bottom of the hierarchy had a mortality rate four times higher than that of people at the top. Even after accounting for genetic risks and behaviours such as smoking and binge drinking, employees at the bottom still had nearly double the mortality rate of those at the top.
Sapolsky set out to test the hypothesis that the stress involved in being at the bottom of the baboon hierarchy led to health problems.
The instances of unwanted attention – I posted the definition of “microagressions” upthread – are definitely straws.
How much it affects each person, and at what level their current load sits, are surely almost infinitely variable.
But also totally unknown to a casual observer or stranger.
Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.
Whilst I think there are obvious cases of persistent power imbalance, and that definitely makes it bad, I believe power imbalance can also be situational and a person who you might consider to be in a position of sufficient power, can have that power stripped away or undermined. Victim-blaming is possibly the most obvious example of that.
Dismissing a person’s concerns because they ought to just get over it, because other people have it worse.
All of these harms or perceived harms are on some sort of gradient, so yeah, of course some are less bad than others, and of course there is a requirement for reasonableness - not every perceived slight is even really happening. I think we probably just draw the dividing line in very different places.
It’s interesting that you’re choosing that example; because being tall is in general advantageous in this society, and overall brings respect.
The nine zillionth time someone effectively calls you a helpless child, or whether by implication or straight-out calls you unhealthy, or casts doubt on whether you’re actually a member of the community, isn’t quite the same issue. Yes, they can all be annoying no matter how confident you are; and yes, they can all be a matter of commenting on what somebody looks like; but the wounds inflicted are likely to be more serious.
I think that might be what @pkbites meant by pointing out that the woman being dissed was short but didn’t have a specific form of dwarfism.
What I think is being missed there is that Sylvia’s in a generally disrespected profession, and also is female; and that infantilizing people in either of those categories is also an attack at a weak point.
Again – would Lisa have said that to a male superior, no matter how short he was?
And when it can come out it may seem disproportionate.
@DavidNRockies, stress is not necessarily a bad thing. But when we have no ability to address its causes, when it is fairly constant with no recovery, catastrophic high levels not required, then it is a bad thing. Having to endure frequent jibes with no reasonable recourse is the sort that eats at people. The idea that well I only threw one pebble at them and one pebble is no big deal, in the context of someone getting pelted with many pebbles? These are not imaginary “microaggressions”; they are straight up insensitive stupid things to say that are never said to someone when they are above you in the power dynamic.
