The bits with Rorschach were made of solid win. Especially the stuff in the prison. “Two nothing. Your move.”
Infinitely watchable.
The film did a good job of setting up the atmosphere; the Minuteman set up, the Vietnam stuff, the tragic faded state of the current heroes. Speaking of which, I had a hard time figuring out which character was the most tragic; Rorschach is obviously a strong candidate; his upbringing has turned him into a paranoid psychopath. Dr. Manhattan too - though no fault of his own he is becoming hated by the public and removed from humanity. Although it was his fault shagging about; I was with his girlfriend on that.
That makes sense - I haven’t seen Mad Max in a LONG time and had forgotten that, but I definitely think something else should have been done. I mean, if the objection is that it’s not original, then hacking someone in the head doesn’t solve that problem - that’s much *less *original.
Both, I guess (although I’ve not read the GN, I am familiar with it). I’m not at all prudish, but it kind of took me out of the film a bit. Dr. Manhattan’s glowing blue junk didn’t bother me as much; it was appropriately symbolic of his increasing detachment from humanity and its quaint traditions.
It’s been awhile since I read the comic, but if I remember correctly, it doesn’t have Dan coming outside to scream NOOOOO when he sees Dr. Manhattan blow away Rorschach, or him going back inside and beating up Adrian. Please correct me if I’m wrong! I don’t have the book on me to check, unfortunately.
For me, there was a lot to like, but there was also some disappointment. Overall, I enjoyed it. However, it’s a little sad that my favorite part came almost right at the beginning, and things went downhill from there to the end. Both Silk Spectres were poorly acted in parts (II moreso than I), and I felt like Ozymandias was too obviously broadcasted as the eventual villain. The musical choices were extremely bizarre in places, and the sound editing was way over the top. And there was too much rejoicing in blood and gore for the sake of blood and gore…except at the end, where there’s supposed to be an appalling amount of blood and gore and death.
So yeah…my favorite part. The title sequence was freaking amazing. It was incredibly effective for me, evocative of both the historical eras past and of the more fully fleshed out masked vigilante backstory in the GN. Did anyone else find it really powerful and moving?
I was very happy with the choices made in editing the GN down to a movie, and I was quite impressed by Jackie Earle Haley and Jeffrey Dean Morgan, both of whom were brilliant, IMHO.
I suppose I might as well throw my own thoughts down: I found it to be a weak movie. Not a nightmarishly horrible one, just a weak one. And the problems weren’t ones that would have been easy to fix for every flash of brilliance (and the film has more than its share) there’s something completely rotten that drags down the rest.
One of my big problems is in performances. When the guy who plays the aloof, omniscient god provides the best emotional performance in the movie then something is wrong. I can’t say it’s Billy Crudup; Snyder clearly had a different interpretation of the character of Dr. Manhattan than I did and Crudup did a wonderful job with it. Jackie Haley’s portrayal of Rorchach comes close to that skill. Everyone else kept striking sour notes especially at the big, dramatic speeches.
My second big problem is pacing. By trying to mirror the form of the comic too much Snyder created a situation where the film moves in fits and spurts. It makes each sequence feel ragged, not really connecting together outside of itself. It makes characters appear and disappear from the story so that they don’t tie together and a viewer without context is left asking “Why are they there and doing that?”. That’s especially true in Veidt’s case but all of them suffer from it.
Third, as an athiest I can’t say that I appreciate the idea that the only way humanity can play nice is if there’s an omniscient, omnipotent being watching who will rain fire down upon us if we don’t. The film needed to be trimmed back a lot at the script stage and drop things like Rorchach’s conversation with the psychologist (I love it in the book too but it slows the film down at that point and doesn’t add anything to his character that we do not already see in the film).
I tend to take a deconstructionist view of Watchmen so even though I have my fanboy nitpicks I can’t disagree Snyder interpreting things differently than I do. So I can say that I don’t think they got across the concept of Manhattan’s near-omniscience (I think some kind of mosaic or overlapping view of history during his flashback might have worked especially if they put bits of what was to come in there) or that the loss of the Gordian knot metaphor harmed the explanation of the plot but I wouldn’t put those forward as strong criticisms of the movie.
Finally, and maybe I should start my own thread for this, but every time I go to the movies I want to go to another movie less and less. The volume in the theater was so loud that it was painful during many of the action sequences.
This was pretty disappointing. The camera work was fun to watch, and I loved the opening credits, but the acting just brought the whole thing crashing down. I don’t understand why people are singling out Silk Spectre II… She didn’t strike me as any worse than the rest of the cast. Rorschach’s overly badass growl annoyed me… so did Dr. Manhattan’s voice. And Ozymandias… That was a baffling casting decision.
The soundtrack was bizarrely awful. The Sound of Silence? All Along the Watchtower? Great songs, of course, but they didn’t fit the movie at all. Yes, I know why the Hendrix song was used. That doesn’t mean it was a good idea.
Overall, it just didn’t feel like the comic. It didn’t feel like 1985 at all, besides a few shots of floppy disks and the whole cold war theme. It wasn’t dirty or gritty enough. Could have used more scenes of how terrifying NYC had become.
If I hadn’t read the comic, I think I would have been utterly confused at a lot of the movie. It didn’t explain Rorschach’s “magic” mask, or Bubastis… who really shouldn’t have been included, seeing how the Squid was removed. (Another bad idea.)
And I really missed those crazy crack pipe cigarettes.
My biggest problem was the plot. It felt like a bad 60s plot. I know that it followed the source material, but that just means I would have hated the source too.
Beyond that, it was OK. I didn’t hat the acting as much as many here and of course, Silk Specter II was hot.
Pity they had to lose the shadow lovers, too. I don’t recall there being enough concern (or even notice) on the part of the general public that nuclear war was days away.
I just saw it on IMAX - I loved it. It was simpled down by degrees but as a fanboy, it was like Dune but the scenes it visualized accurately strung together and told a cool story. Yay.
I actually liked it a lot more than I thought I would. My only complaint was the ending. I didn’t feel that Ozymandius’s speech carried the same weight as in the comics, and I honestly got confused when he was explaining how he had framed John and that would make the world unite. My GF liked it as well, but she wasn’t as enthusiastic as I was. Still think it would’ve worked better as a mini-series.
I don’t think 1985 ever felt like The Watchmen.
The 80s were full of optimism. Reagan was Mr. Freaking sunshine. Everybody was in love with Lady Di. The NYC in the comic has much more to do with NYC of the 70s. In fact Rorschach is basically Bernie Goetz with a mask.
Plus we are talking about a different history. What if Nixon used Supers to win Vietnam? So a realistic 85 is kind of not necessary.
Personally I loved the movie. It sure as hell didn’t pull it’s punches.
You’re right. When Rorschach leaves, Dan and Laurie wander off together to make weepy love by the pool and Adrian goes to meditate. Jon’s disintegration of Rorschach is not witnessed, unless you count Adrian’s surveillance cameras. I didn’t really get the point of having Nite Owl observe Rorschach being killed in the film. It felt like useless added melodrama, when the one-on-one confrontation in the GN was more elegantly tragic.
I figured that was a payoff of the Rorschach/Nite Owl friendship. There was a lot to digest, so I’ll just throw out a few points:
Rorschach, Manhattan and Nite Owl were the best acted, with Comedian a close third. In the book, did they ever mention Comedian’s middle name? The fighting got a little old, there’s only so many ways you can punch someone. I think it was as good a Watchmen movie as can be made, for good and bad.
Random thoughts on a movie that I have to put in the "interesting failure category:
_ Snyder should have felt free to veer away from the structure of the book. The movie, by spending 15 minutes on this character and then 15 minutes on that one and then 15 minutes on another, was disjointed – herky-jerky. His approach would have worked much better as a “Band of Brothers”-style miniseries on HBO. Take the time to develop the characters and let viewers soak up the mood. DON’T try to cram it all into a two-and-a-half-hour movie.
_ Ozymandias was badly miscast. My take on the character is that he comes across to the public as Prince Charming – he’s the smartest, best-looking guy on the planet but he’s modest about it. Women swoon and men want to pal around with him. Think Brad Piit or a young Robert Redford. The character’s likability magnifies the horror of what he’s done.
_ The explanation of Ozy’s plot was confusing, and his reaction to it’s success was emotionless. They needed to hit the audience over the head with the enormity of what he was suggesting, show the horrified reaction of Nite-Owl and Rorschach and THEN reveal that he’d already done it. And show the bloody, awful aftermath. Then, when it’s clear his plan is working, Ozy should act like the high school quarterback who just won the championship.
_ The actor playing Nite-Owl (Patrick Wilson?) did a really nice job. He made him believable as a nice schlub who only really comes alive when he’s in costume and in action. I was glad to see the added scene of his reaction to Rorschach’s murder. I agree with the others who have already praised Crudup and Hailey.
_ The sex scene didn’t work. The pretentious music combined with the awkward humping made the whole thing fall flat. Maybe if they’d played it with a bit of a wink – the two horny heroes get so worked up that they start ripping their costumes off while some high-energy song plays in the background.
_ I love everything Carla Gugino has done or ever will do.
_ When it comes to narration, less is more. If we hear every random entry in Rorshach’s journal, then the really good stuff doesn’t stand out. We definitely didn’t need to hear the whole Pagliaci joke.
_ Whoever pointed out the nice handling of Rorschach’s athleticism gets a gold star. They didn’t turn him into Spider-Man, but they showed in an understated way how formidable and accomplished he is.
Indeed. Where’s the tearful arms-in-the-air “I did it!” moment with the tapestry of Alexander and the Gordian knot in the background? They tried to keep it more sombre and threw in the Nite-Owl beating, I guess, because of some leftover Hayes code thing that says the mass murderer can’t get away scott-free or celebrate his act.
I did enjoy the photo-montage at the beginning, though I remember thinking that if I wasn’t familiar with the source material, I probably wouldn’t be able to follow it. The variant on V-J day with Silhouette made me chuckle.
