Then I guess we disagree on the meaning of the words “credible” and “significant”. Or is it “violence” vs “incidents”? Whichever it is, I’m sure we could waste a lot of time discussing it, if you like. I think there is credible evidence for a significant uptick in anti-Semitic incidents, and it’s worth being concerned about.
I assume that only a very small minority of people are willing to use violence to achieve their ends.
The problem is, is when you have 3 million or so die hard racists, even a very small minority starts adding up into real people.
Even if it is only 300, or even just 30 people who are willing to use violence, that’s a fair amount of violence to be had. How many could be killed, or how much damage could be done?
So you’re saying an entire group of people shouldn’t be judged by the violent crimes committed by a handful of their members.
I’m sure Muslims will be gladdened by this change in administration policy.
False-flag acts of apparently racially-motivated vandalism do happen. ITR Champion will likely be along shortly to describe one that took place when he and I were at college.
There can also be actions that are misinterpreted. The day after Trump was elected, someone was flying a Nazi flag in San Francisco, and it was initially reported as brazen anti-Semitism. It turned out to be someone protesting Trump. Obviously, this isn’t directly applicable to gravesite desecration, but it’s important to realize that sometimes the first impression of an action isn’t the right one.
Bomb threats at schools are usually perpetrated by students of the school in question. Probably to feel a sense of power over the disruption it causes. A plausible explanation for at least some of the uptick at Jewish schools is that Jewish students are feeling more vulnerable and powerless and fearful, and are more willing to lash out in this way in order to feel more secure and in control. That would certainly be connected to the social and political climate, but it wouldn’t really be directly caused by white supremacists.
I agree that the state of things is concerning, and I think it’s likely that a relatively small group of white supremacists is responsible for much of those, and has been emboldened by Trump. But that doesn’t mean that every incident should be assumed to be caused by that.
I said no such thing, and haven’t addressed that line of thought at all.
I thought I laid it out clearly in post #57, but I guess I need to walk some folks through the steps:
iiandyiiii: “3 million open white supremacists/KKK supporters could hurt a lot of people…” [True, but academic at this point because…]
Shodan: “But that isn’t happening.” [“That” being 3 million white supremacists/KKK supporters going around hurting people.]
iiandyiiii: “What isn’t happening? There aren’t any grave topplers and bomb threats? The Kansas shooting didn’t happen?” [Of course these things are happening, but not even remotely near the scale of 3 million active perpetrators.]
Me: “What isn’t happening is 3 million people doing that crap. Probably more like 30 doing it.”
The point being, Shodan (as I understand it) wasn’t denying the actions listed by iiandyiiii, he was just pointing out that there weren’t 3 million people doing them. I was trying to clarify this for iiandyiiii who seemed to misinterpret Shodan’s statement.
How you got your notion of judging from that is beyond me.
Sorry if my statement was confusing, but what I meant was that if there are ~3 million white supremacist/KKK supporters in the US, that’s a very concerning thing and could lead to a lot of harm and suffering, since that’s a large number and even if only a small proportion are violent that could still be a lot of violent people. I didn’t mean that literally every single one of these potential white supremacists is actively engaged in violence or vandalism.
Sometimes I use normal conversational language, which can be a mistake on the Dope.
One arrest has just been made over a few of the bomb threats, although they are saying that he was a copycat and not suspected in connection with the general run of threats.
This person allegedly have made several threats and then notified police falsely blaming his ex-girlfriend for doing so, as part of a campaign of harassment. Apparently he was a reporter for the Intercept who was fired for fabricating quotes, and his Twitter feed is about you’d expect.
Juan Thompson, 31, was arrested in St. Louis by the FBI for making at least eight bomb threats [to the Jewish Community Centers].
…
The criminal complaint states that threats made to the Jewish establishments across the country by Thompson were under his name and the name of his ex-girlfriend, and occurred after the relationship ended. The threats were made by both email and phone calls.
…
Thompson’s Twitter account, which is referenced in the criminal complaint, espouses communist and anti-Trump beliefs.
This is roughly what I had in mind in the OP.
Glad they caught him. Hopefully all the threats were similar types of hoaxes, and none of them were from people who actually want to harm Jews.
Sure, if by “sabotage the right” you actually meant “somehow get his ex-girlfriend thrown in jail.”
In that case, you’re practically a psychic!
Just because the guy’s an idiot doesn’t excuse him for being an anti-semite too.
I honestly didn’t expect this. I knew it was a possibility of course. But I was sure the threats were the work of white supremacists emboldened by Trump’s victory.
Crow for dinner tonight! Followed by my foot, and a reminder that I can’t predict the future for shit.
One doesn’t have to be a far-right loon to hate Jews.
Antisemitism is the tie that binds together assholes from all races and creeds.
If it’s a personal matter, then he might not be an anti-Semite altogether.
I think it’s reasonable to call someone who calls in bomb-threats to Jewish community centers an anti-Semite, regardless of their motivation for doing so.
I don’t want to get involved in semantics. The post I was responding to didn’t use the term “anti-Semite”, and was about whether the guy hates Jews. I used the term anti-Semite in that sense, but if you think that term applies anyway, then just substitute “hate Jews” for “be an anti-Semite”.
Okay, fair enough. On a non-semantic note, I’d say that being willing to call in bomb threats to Jewish centers demonstrates a level of contempt (or maybe callous disregard) for Jews that might fairly be described as hatred. Or maybe that’s just semantics about the word “hatred”.
Possible. But the guy might just hate everybody, and/or have a low level of morality and not really care about anyone when he’s trying to achieve some goal. Right now bomb threats against Jewish centers are very much in the news so he tailored his actions along those lines. If it was another type of attack in the news he might have faked something along those lines too.
It could turn out that the guy is a raving Jew-hater, but based on what’s known about him to this point it sounds like he’s an all-purpose low-life. While there’s no doubt some correlation between being an all-purpose lowlife and being a hater of other groups including Jews, I don’t know how much you can conclude from the details of a specific opportunistic crime.
Look, ARE there potentially violent white racists and Jew-haters out there? Of course there. Not many, not nearly as many as there used to be, but they exist.
Thing is, they existed two, four, six years ago too. But the New York Times wasn’t keeping tabs on them or tallying up weekly hate incidents then. They’re doing it now. Why?
Because of a false, silly assumption that Trump’s voters are neo-Nazis chomping at the bit to kill blacks, Jews, Mexicans and Muslims.
It’s not true. Vigilance is wise, but no wiser than it was a year ago. People panicking about a huge upsurge in hate crimes are probably overreacting.