We are happy [the Space Shuttle] broke up."

The BBQ Pit
61

Umm, right after 9/11 there were a few race related murders. Remember that Sikh in Arizona that was killed while pumping gas?

Jesus Christ why don’t you Bush, and Osama take your fucking holy wars and leave me out of it.

Let’s make this clear, as anyone who knows A GODDAMN THING about the recent history of the middle east realizes. “WE’VE FUCKED THEM OVER, THEY HATE US BECAUSE OF WHAT WE HAVE DONE TO THEM AND NOT WHAT WE REPRESENT.”

Jesus Christ people act as though arabs and muslims have just always been these hatemongering warlords bent on destroying good honest white people. Fuck that noise, there was a major movement to secularize in the 50s that just got quashed because they couldn’t get out from under the British, French, American thumb. So take your little fucking “Americans are morally superior” attitude and shove it up your ass because it’s simply not true. If you’ve ever once in your life complained about the price of gas, well then you’re fucking responsible because it’s our policy of fucking them, that makes gas so cheap for you. Their grievances are legitimate, 9/11 happened for a fucking reason. It wasn’t just blind hatred, no matter what people want to think. America isn’t a peace loving nation, we oppress the rest of the world, and it’s time we own up to that. We’re not going to be on top forever, hell we won’t be on top by the time I hit 50, and I’m thankful for that. I’m tired of being on top, let some other country take that slot and let us move back to a more isolationist policy, so we can stop having terrorists attacking us.

Erek

62

I have no words…

No, make that I have too many words to say to you, but most of them would be counterproductive and full of the same vitrol you seem to enjoy spewing.
The only thing I am sure of is there is no hope for you, as far as I am concerned.

63

Xploder: You’re a fucking moron

Erek

64

No no no, mswas, and your ilk, fuck YOU. Fuck you for your unending ability to apologize for the barbarity of others, all the while failing to show where Americans gather in the streets and cheer when there are earthquakes in Afghanistan or Iraq.
The arabs/muslims do not have “legitimate fucking reasons for hating us”, and neither do dipfucks like you.

That fact is people like you (And the Iraqis who are now thrilled, and the Palestineans who cheered 9-11) blame the US for everything, since you are too small-brained to actually examine the root problems involved. Only in your pea-sized brain do Iraqis have more of a reason to hate us, rather then Saddam.

Live in a dictatorship? Blame America! Said dictatorship is soon to be removed? Why, blame America! America gives roughly equal amounts of foreign aid to Egypt and Israel? Blame America for propping up the Zionists!

Fuck you mswas.

65

Uh, Johnny…?

Are you aware that Col. Ramon is one of the guys who did the actual bombing of the Iraqi nuke plant? So he actually DID attack Iraq at one point. And there is a connection, however thin.

Of course, I don’t for a minute believe they would have felt bad if it was some other Isreali…

66

You know what? Fuck you Erek. The whole mantra of many people on this board is “It’s not OK to blame a group for the actions of some members”. Fine. But then you go and spout off that arabs/muslims have legitimate reasons for hating Americans? WTF? So now there are legitimate reasons to hate a group of people? Or only to hate Americans?

Still waiting for the CITE about Americans dancing, chanting, and Iraqi flag-burning, btw.

67

Actually, idiot, the part of your assertion that i found most ill-considered concerned the feeling of Iraqis for the United States.

If you believe the warmongers in this country, from Idiot-in-Chief Bush on down, the Iraqi people all hate Saddam and are waiting with baited breath for their American friends and heroes to rescue them from the clutches of the dictator.

Now, while i don’t subscribe to this particular view, neither do i think it correct to assert that most Iraqis hate the US. The simple fact is that we really don’t know what a majority of the Iraqi population feel about America.

I find it interesting that the same people who advocate invasion on the grounds that Iraqis don’t support their leader then turn around and level blanket criticisms of the Iraqi people for expressing the same opinions as their leader. Did it ever occur to you, for example, that some of these people might be taking their anti-American postion in order to avoid persecution at the hands of Saddam and his cronies?

And, on the issue of Israel, first you state that “all Iraqis hate Israel and Jews” and then point out that Israel “is universally hated across the Arab world.”

The second assertion is one that is relatively easy to sustain in the light of evidence; the first, which was your earlier post, is much less so.

Firstly, it assumes a knowledge of the Iraqi people’s minds that, as i suggested above, is untenable given the current situation in that country. Secondly, and more importantly, it conflates the terms “Israel” and “Jews” and makes the common mistake that opposing the state of Israel and its actions is the same as hating Jews for their religion. Thus, anti-Zionism becomes anti-Semitism in the blink of an eye, with no actual rational analysis necessary. True, many who oppose Israel also oppose any rights or privilieges for Jews as a whole, but many do not. And this includes many Jewish people, within Israel as well as in the diaspora, who remain proud of their religion and their heritage yet continue to oppose the actions of the Jewish state.

68

Well the fact that many Arabs and Muslims that indeed feel deep antipathy toward American foreign policy are not “dancing in the streets” at all of our misfortunes or saying petty comments about every little thing that happens in America should tell you something - this particular Iraqi “official” is going out of his way to be an ASSHOLE.

69

Thanks for the great response there…

Granted, I DID fly off the handle but what I said, I sincerely believe in. Perhaps it’s time for a Pax Americana.

No, I’m not advocating a holy war against the Middle East. I simply think, AND BELIEVE that if you’re an American then you should support your President REGARDLESS if you agree with him or not. Not to rehash an old issue but the guy WAS elected legally and therefore is our foremost policy maker.

I will not apologise for anything I said because I truly believe that we need, as a nation to support our government and it’s policies. To do any less makes us look even more assholish in the world’s eyes.

If you don’t agree with me then fine, dispute what I said instead of calling me a fucking moron. And yes, I do know that I started with the name calling…bear in mind that I just lost someone very dear to me this morning and forgive my stupidness.

70

Hamlet: Oh fuck you, I am tired of heariing how awful the people in the middle east are, when we support an oppressive Shah, with terrible human rights records in Iran, and then put sanctions on the government of the people’s movement that replaced him.

I am tired of hearing how awful people in the middle east are, when we pledge support for one middle eastern dictator to invade another country then pull that support after his forces are already in position so that both sides of the invasion will get fucked, so that the region will remain destabilized.

I am tired of hearing how awful people in the middle east are when we train and supply the warlords in Afghanistan to whom the Taliban were a “preferrable alternative”

I’m tired of hearing about how we aren’t responsible for terrorism when we gas acres of peasant farmers crops with defoliant that kills ALL their crops, not just the coca/opium, so that they can’t grow bananas this season or next, leaving them with no choice but to join the guerilla movements because it’s the only source of employment for them.

I am tired of hearing how we are the side of morality when we use cruise missiles for targetted assassinations of foreign leaders and end up killing members of their family.

I am tired of hearing how we are going in to save an oppressed people and then reading all about the pipelines that Halliburton has already poured billions of dollars into, in the region.

I am tired of hearing that Arabs have always wanted to end our way of life, that our ways of life are incompatible, that they resent us for our decadent lifestyle, because they are all religious zealots, when we thwarted Arab nationalism at every turn.

I am tired of hearing about all of these things and then hearing the people of MY country act as though I should be patriotic to the fucking president even as he leads me into what I see as a death march.

There will be more terrorism, we are Rome, we are the Mongol Empire, We are the British Empire, We are the Nazis, We are the USSR, every empire that has preceded us has done terrible things to it’s subjects, and we are NO different. I am tired of people acting as though we are. We don’t support democracy, we’ve thwarted it multiple times, and we give it away more and more at home. So fuck all the warmongering, we haven’t been justified in war since World War II.

Erek

71

Xploder: It’s all good, you’re right, and I’m sorry about your loss.

I however think my patriotic duty is to the constitution and the rules that are contained within, and I don’t think that our current path is following those values, so I feel that my patriotic duty is to NOT support our president.

Erek

72

We elect Presidents. Not Fuehrers.

73

And who looks like the moron now?

Egads dude, you’re gonna bust a vein with that anger you spew.

74

I have no problem with calling that guy an asshole. My issue was with all the comments of. “It just goes to show there is no hope for these people.”, which I may or may not have read fairly as “Iraqis”.

Erek

75

I think elucidator’s post sums up exactly why I called him a moron.

Erek

76

Thanks for the intelligent response. Although I don’t recall where in the constitution it says to NOT support your elected leaders I fully support your right to do so. After all…THIS is a free country unlike every country in the Middle East…sorry for the not-so-subtle dig but I can’t seem to help it…

77

Thanks for meeting the miniscule level of my expectations of you. I feel much better about ignoring you now.

78

“Jesus Christ people act as though arabs and muslims have just always been these hatemongering warlords bent on destroying good honest white people.”

Why did you bring race into this discussion? It wouldn’t be because you are anti-white, would it?

79

Look, ever heard about WWII? Maybe Korea? Did we have a Feuhrer then? Do we now? Of course we don’t…

When you can cite to me that President Bush is acting as a Dictator outside of what he has been granted by law then I might agree with you.

Until then, you’re just talking out of your ass.

80

Well, with the vitrol you spewed, I could only read one thing you being the moron…At least elucidator used some tact in his/her response, unlike you. I also understood that Xploder has had a rough go of it today.

Get those panties out of your ass, that’s gotta be very uncomfortable.