We are happy [the Space Shuttle] broke up."

[kambuckta]

*Originally posted by milroyj *
**

And yet, Palestinians danced on 9/11. Iraq is gloating over the deaths of American astronauts. This is ok, how? **

SOME Palestinians danced on 9/11. SOME Iraqis are gloating over the deaths of the astronauts.

AND SOME FUCKING AMERICANS DANCE AND SOME FUCKING AMERICANS GLOAT AT THE PROSPECT OF IRAQIS DYING TOO. Is that so fucking hard to get through your thick skull milroyj?

[mswas]

milroyj: How in all of my posts did you ever once find dishonesty? I was completely honest in all of my posts.

And I don’t hate Americans, as you would know if you’d read the posts you’ve been replying to.

Erek

[milroyj]

*Originally posted by mswas *
**Ok, let me rephrase that.

Our hatred is just as unjustified as theirs.

Let me take back what I said earlier, they don’t have legitimate reasons to hate us, but they do have legitimate reasons to want to attack us, and to remove us from their realm. In otherwords, we both have legitimate reasons for the fear, and IMO America, as the more powerful of the two parties, has the onus to make the first step toward de-escalation.

Erek **

Thank you, Erek, that was rather my point. Hatred on both sides is a very bad thing. Occasionally, this board gets bogged down with America is bad or Israel is bad posts, to the detriment of anything else. Glad to see someone can be reasonable. Cheers!

[Malthus]

*Originally posted by mhendo *
**Actually, idiot, the part of your assertion that i found most ill-considered concerned the feeling of Iraqis for the United States.

If you believe the warmongers in this country, from Idiot-in-Chief Bush on down, the Iraqi people all hate Saddam and are waiting with baited breath for their American friends and heroes to rescue them from the clutches of the dictator.

Now, while i don’t subscribe to this particular view, neither do i think it correct to assert that most Iraqis hate the US. The simple fact is that we really don’t know what a majority of the Iraqi population feel about America.

I find it interesting that the same people who advocate invasion on the grounds that Iraqis don’t support their leader then turn around and level blanket criticisms of the Iraqi people for expressing the same opinions as their leader. Did it ever occur to you, for example, that some of these people might be taking their anti-American postion in order to avoid persecution at the hands of Saddam and his cronies?

And, on the issue of Israel, first you state that “all Iraqis hate Israel and Jews” and then point out that Israel “is universally hated across the Arab world.”

The second assertion is one that is relatively easy to sustain in the light of evidence; the first, which was your earlier post, is much less so.

Firstly, it assumes a knowledge of the Iraqi people’s minds that, as i suggested above, is untenable given the current situation in that country. Secondly, and more importantly, it conflates the terms “Israel” and “Jews” and makes the common mistake that opposing the state of Israel and its actions is the same as hating Jews for their religion. Thus, anti-Zionism becomes anti-Semitism in the blink of an eye, with no actual rational analysis necessary. True, many who oppose Israel also oppose any rights or privilieges for Jews as a whole, but many do not. And this includes many Jewish people, within Israel as well as in the diaspora, who remain proud of their religion and their heritage yet continue to oppose the actions of the Jewish state. **

Too bad there are so very few actual Jews left in their ancestral homes throughout the middle east - all those poor neo-colonialized victim Arab regimes, it seems, have “conflated” Jews with Zionism in the exact same way as you have labelled “a common mistake”:

http://www.hsje.org/displacement_of_jews_from_arab_c.htm

No tears from the Left for the Shephardim - I wonder why. I honestly do.

[milroyj]

*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas *
**I can give you dozens of examples from kids back in junior high last time we fought them. And go to a bar when the fightig starts this time and is on TV, i bet some drunk idiots will be cheering the Iranian people… **

So your cites are jr.high kids and drunks? That would be funny, if it wasn’t so stupid.

[milroyj]

*Originally posted by kambuckta *
**SOME Palestinians danced on 9/11. SOME Iraqis are gloating over the deaths of the astronauts.

AND SOME FUCKING AMERICANS DANCE AND SOME FUCKING AMERICANS GLOAT AT THE PROSPECT OF IRAQIS DYING TOO. Is that so fucking hard to get through your thick skull milroyj? **

Is it so hard to get though your fucking thick skull, that NOBODY IN AMERICA is dancing about anything? Unless you have a post-1980 cite, of course.

[Tars_Tarkas]

*Originally posted by milroyj *
**So your cites are jr.high kids and drunks? That would be funny, if it wasn’t so stupid. **

so would you

[milroyj]

*Originally posted by mswas *
**milroyj: How in all of my posts did you ever once find dishonesty? I was completely honest in all of my posts.

And I don’t hate Americans, as you would know if you’d read the posts you’ve been replying to.

Erek **

No, I don’t think you’re dishonest, sorry if I implied such, which I don’t think I did.

[mswas]

milroyj: Actually, Americans do dance in the streets about lots of stuff. Left-wing political rallies involve lots of dancing in the streets.

However, I don’t have an example of us dancing in the streets when bad things happen overseas. However, I think that’s a cultural thing, I think we dance, just in other ways.

Erek

[mswas]

milroyj: Well thank you, it was your “finally a semi-honest answer” comment.

Erek

[kambuckta]

Will someone please go over to milroyj’s house and dance for him just so he will shut the fuck up about such petty pedantries.

Please?

[elucidator]

What? And go to Chicago? Hey, I’m a compassionate guy and all that, but jeez…

Besides, I dance like a white guy.

[milroyj]

Erek, my friend, I think that’s dodging the issue a bit. Blaming it on cultural differences? They dance in the streets, we wear stupid t-shirts? Where does one draw the line? After all, FGM, child rape, cannabilsm, stoning gays, and etc. is “ok” in some cultures. Cutural differences exist, but they don’t excuse evil behavior.

[mswas]

elucidator: lol

Erek

[mswas]

milroyj: Umm, that was kind of my point. Lot’s of things we do ARE the same as dancing in the streets, they just consist of a different set of actions. What I was saying is, we do jingoistic things, just our culture does not associate dancing in the streets with our particular brand of jingoism.

And I don’t believe in evil.

Erek

[Monty]

For a moment there, I forgot this thread is in the BBQ Pit. Well, since it is, here goes:

1. gobear started out pretty badly, but mellowed pretty quickly. I skimmed the thread instead of reading it as though I’ll be taking a comprehensive exam on it this evening, so I might’ve missed another backsliding.

2. JohnnyIsGood: Changing your username to Johnny’s a Fucking Jackass with no mind whatsoever would help describe you a bit better than your current abuse of the word “good” in your username. First off, Allah is the same deity of the Jews and the Christians. Muslims worship the same deity.

[Monty]

Next: There was a bit of a war between Iraq and Iran. Even when that war was over, the Iranians didn’t exactly love Iraq. Guess what it took to get over that little bit of a lovefest. Yep, Iraq firing weapons at Israel, a country not even remotely involved with Saddam Hussein’s stomping all over yet another Muslim land. And the fanatics amongst the PLO et al lapped it up.

Another key thing to remember is that the current ruling power in Iraq is the Baath party, you know, the outfit that’s anti-religion.

[Johnny_L.A]

I started this thread because I was pissed off at the behaviour and sentiments of people like Abdul Jabbar al-Quraishi and Mohammed Jaber al-Tamini. Now it’s “Americans are guilty” and “Arabs are savages”. That wasn’t the intent.

I work with Arabs and Jews, Indians and Pakistanis, Russians, Hispanics, Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, Europeans, and who-knows-who else. I either know enough, have been around enough, or am naiive enough to know that whole nations cannot be judged by the actions of a few.

So let me reiterate: I’m pissed off at the lack of common humanity and compassion by certain individuals who rejoice at the deaths of strangers.

[booka]

Hey, it’s easy to tee off on the supposed statements of Abdul-who-da-Fuck. No one likes to hear that kinda shit.

But think about it. If you’ve got Saddam’s sword dangling above your neck and the necks of everyone in your family, what do you say? For most, you say what the STATE tells you to say.

Saddam has a gunpointed at me? I’m tellin’ him that I like his silk suit and that I agree that he’s a direct descendent of Mohammed. Anything you say, man - you got the gun.

I suspect that things will be a helluva lot different when Saddam is BBQ’ed by F16’s and assorted other “hands of God”. Maybe we’ll finally get to hear what the Iraqis really think. It all goes back to Saddam. His evil is unbounded. He is a daily tragedy.

[mswas]

Johnny: I wholeheartedly agree.

Erek