mswas, a.k.a. numbskull:
is a bit different than:
P.S. List their reasons. With specificity.
You don’t have to be an Iraqi to feel satisfaction at the Shuttle accident. Look at these reported remarks of two Canadian callers to C-SPAN:
Also these reported remarks from the CBC:
And for the record, I know these sentiments (if accurately represented) are not shared by the majority of Canadians.
I’ve seen people deal with shock and grief by getting angry first. They can be angry at the doctor who gives bad news, or at some stranger who was not even involved. This whole thread is somewhat powered by the emotions of shock.
There are so many people who are expressing sadness and support for the astronauts and their families, what possible good do you think will come from focusing on the few negative sentiments out there?
not to hijack with a dissertation on the morals of the media, but crap like that brings ratings and, in the case of the iraqi sentiments, a buttload of ratings. The media are whores. They chose the reactions that would bring about the most extreme reactions. That’s all. It is up to us to chose how we look at such statements.
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I agree. I’d imagine that in the current circumstance people are looking for a “legitimate” channel at which to spew their outrage and feelings of loss. To many, the Iraqi people and Muslims in general seem a safe enough target, especially given the offensive remarks quoted in the OP. Sure we can be outraged by idiotic comments that suggest this tragedy came to us as a from of divine retribution. But it doesn’t help to spit the same hateful vitrol right back at them, that won’t change anything about what happened this morning. Nothing will.
Instead it pushes us away from understanding the concerns, whether real or manufactured, that lead people to believe the worst of others
Lemmie see - this is a report on someone’s site about what someone heard on the radio, purporting to be the reaction of a couple of unnamed callers claiming to be Canadian.
How many levels of heresay is that? Honestly, I lost count. :rolleyes:
- am I the only one just a little disturbed about the fact that the little gloating Iraqui prick was considered newsworthy in the first place ?
It should surprise no one that some Iraquis would consider their enemy (or what they consider their enemy) getting a black eye a cause for joy. They are watching the worlds most powerful country lining up to kick the snot out of them, killing their sons and brothers in the process. They’re about to have a war where they live, and that pretty much sucks. Of course some will give in to a bit of schadenfreude when an opportunity presents itself.
But why the heck is that news ? Assholes present in Iraq - well, we knew that. Assholes abound in every single friggin’ country worldwide.
Sadly, I’m in no doubt that some dumb rednecks will gloat when the bombs start dropping in Iraq. (It’s not as if this thread has been lacking in smug predictions of Iraquis getting theirs, is it ?) No nationality holds the copyright on assholish behaviour.
Perhaps it would do to dampen the generalizations about all Iraquis/arabs/whatever just a tad and wonder whether we’d like the perceptions of our respective countries to be determined by a camera crew seeking out examples of boorish behaviour ?
And I don’t believe in evil.
Excuse me??? Erek, wake up baby. There is evil all around us. Tell me 9/11 was not evil. Tell me war is not evil. Tell me rape is not evil. You must be joking!
There is evil in this world and you have to deal with it. Sticking your head in the sand and ignoring it doesn’t do any good. And I’m certainly not saying that America or Americans are innocent in this regard, but the leaders of Iraq are doing a real good job of looking pretty evil with comments like what was in the OP.
– Doctor
But they won’t find us dancin’, nosiree. 
My sentiments exactly Spiny Norman.
I don’t think I’m gonna lose any sleep over the opinions of a couple of people.
Johnny L.A. I blame you! You opened this fucking thread. You gave an open forumn to people who express some of the most blatantly rediculous statements on this board (millroyj comes to mind).
Why, oh why, didn’t you leave it to the whiny IQ-impaired knee-jerk fucking assholes who usually bring up such mindless threads? Why not leave it to the neo-nazi, ultra-conservative denizens who constantly feed on the bottom of the news, dredging up fetid minutiae upon which to embrace and suckle? You’re so much better than this.
I don’t know if I can come up with witticisms to match the craftiness of yours, so I won’t even try.
I made a list of specific examples once in this thread, it was my second or third post, go check it out.
Erek
…so I take it you don’t know anything about Islam, have never read the Qur’an, and don’t know any Muslims.
Well, I know I’m going to get flamed for this, but no I don’t think 9/11 was evil, I don’t think rape is evil. Semantically it exists, but to me it has lost definition. If you mean it to be “really undesirable” then yeah, I guess there is evil. However 9/11 wasn’t evil, it was desperate act of a desperate people against the greatest power on Earth for which they feel they have no voice in.
Rape is a feeling of powerlessness in every day life and is manifested by exerting primal power over another human being. Rape is about empowerment to the detriment of another. It’s not evil in my opinion. It’s just not something that we desire in society.
Erek
No, because they are the same god. They all believe the Old Testament, etc. Muslims think of Jesus as a prophet. I think Jews do as well, but I’m not sure.
Uh…no. Sorry. I’m not going to abandon my own moral views just because more than half of the country likes a guy who has different views. How could I support something that I believed was wrong?
posted by mswas
Lost me on this one, though I’ll try not to flame you.
The hijackers themselves were probably desperate at one time until they became terribly mislead by a bunch of (negative adjectives fail me) manipulative zealots. As far as evil, that was pretty close. What they did was not out of desparation but of anger, a misguided sense of vengance, and promises of paradise.
You’re rationalizing pretty hard core on this one. I was with you on some of your points, but actions such as 9/11 have absolutely no reasoning or justification. Take a deep breath and make sure your argument isn’t running away with you.
Hope I didn’t flame you:cool:
mswas
Main Entry: evil
Pronunciation: 'E-v&l, British often and US also 'E-(")vil
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): evil·er or evil·ler; evil·est or evil·lest
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English yfel; akin to Old High German ubil evil
Date: before 12th century
1 a : morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED <an evil impulse> b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a man of evil reputation>
2 a archaic : INFERIOR b : causing discomfort or repulsion : OFFENSIVE <an evil odor> c : DISAGREEABLE <woke late and in an evil temper>
3 a : causing harm : PERNICIOUS <the evil institution of slavery> b : marked by misfortune : UNLUCKY
Main Entry: rape
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : an act or instance of robbing or despoiling or carrying away a person by force
2 a : sexual intercourse with a woman by a man without her consent and chiefly by force or deception – compare STATUTORY RAPE b : unlawful sexual intercourse by force or threat other than by a man with a woman
3 : an outrageous violation
With the two highlighted I find the act of rape, specifically sexual rape quite evil. I also find causing the harm the 9-11 terrorists inflicted upon New York city to fall into that realm of evil as well.
Then again, I am just a sheep in a land of the free who is a strong Libertarian. I don’t agree with much of what my government does but I do what I can to change that within the means that is non-violent and doesn’t harm anyone else.
Oh and just FYI, in my book coercion is one of the worst evils rape and terrorism both fit that title of evil in my book. You can say that the US goverment uses the same tactics when that statement is untrue. I would love to see that all outside aid is taken away and all that benefit from the US Government, aka our taxes, is realized in the states (countries) how much is actually done. But no, we are the Large Monster that everyone feels we do the worst when in fact we try to do our best with what we have. MIsguided at times, I agree, but to blanketly state that the US government is creating this, in no uncertain terms from your posts, really makes me want to tell you “Fine, go live in another country then. You don’t have to agree 100% but it would be nice for you to open up to all sides of the issue rather than stand solidly behind some of the comments you have stated on this thread.”
Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Date: 1795
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
I don’t see that the US uses coercion in a manner like some of those that have threatened our securities. Almost 3,000 innocent people died on 9-11, they weren’t soldiers in an army, they were innocent men, women and YES, children going about their lives when 11 men decided to take their fate into their hands. If that’s not evil, then I have no idea how you classify that.
Saddam has every chance to avoid a war, he can be up front and honest with the UN. Unfortunately, even the UN has agreed that he is not being up front. It is Saddam’s decision that may put many people’s lives at jeapordy, we aren’t raping, being evil, as far as I am concerned. I honestly believe that the US is doing it’s best, along with the UN, to avoid a war that frankly, few people want.
I have my own thoughts on Saddam though and care not to bring them up in this thread. But your thoughts seemingly are to go against the grain rather than clearly thinking this through.
If it were my choice? No war. If it were my choice, that person in the OP would have a chance to meet an average Joe American, live with AJA and learn more about who we are rather than bombing his hometown…
Erek, Ok, I can see that all of those drugs must have burned out your brain or something. I can understand most viewpoints, but honestly, I can’t get yours. Fine. We’ll agreee to disagree.
– Doctor