A remark on Slashdot inspired this:
What happened to change this state of affairs? Is this person right in that the way things were were more knowledge and science friendly? Would everyone be better off if we were less afraid to just tell someone in their face that they were stupid and/or that their ideas were wrong/bad?
I don’t believe this is true at all.
I do not see the connection between valuing knowledge and humiliating children.
Given the context (creationists demanding equal time on Cosmos), there’s a connection being drawn between our reluctance to tell people that their ideas are stupid and the power of religion in this country.
ETA: With a side-jaunt to the belief that we’re lowering standards too much in education and that this has to do with special snowflake syndrome.
Agreed. Most message boards are evidence of that, but there is also the anonymity factor.
Isn’t the real problem the speed of communication and not what people think?
I mean, we’ve always had our share of idiots in all walks of life. And all walks of life tend to call their own personal dipsticks dumb and that hasn’t really changed. There has been some emphasis on the so-called “special snowflake” syndrome, but it’s really been one of those things that’s blown out of proportion, like red necks’ beliefs in God. Arguably, the most harm to students have been exposed to is actually the “zero tolerance” stuff (Which has also been conflated as special snowflake…er…-itude.)
But, if you and a few of your friends hate on some random topic, (let’s say evolution) you can form yourself a “group” and get people to donate to the cause from around the world. And then you can dispatch press releases as ridiculous publicity stunts, like trying to get Cosmos to give you equal air time, for all but no cost. Once that’s out there, you get news papers copying that press release (and maybe a few original words about how far our society has fallen) across the world – plus maybe a 5-15 minute segment on CNN or Fox News.
Doing all of this publicity? Maybe $500 plus some soft payroll dollars for things like on-air time. In a few decades as our culture adapts to the 24/7 data cycle, it’ll be more able to handle the superfluous information better. Right now I just think that the information is exploited by all parties for their own gain as many in the population don’t process the load of information effectively.
Shouldn’t this be in the bbq pit? Then I could call you stupid, and you could call me stupid to our heart’s content. Unfortunately, the GD forum doesn’t allow it.
Probably it’s all just cultural evolution; people sort of vote with their feet about what kind of social environment they want to be around. I’ve also noticed over the years that people who have a strong urge to call others stupid tend not to get invited out so much or get promoted so often.
I don’t think that the creationists are creating the tolerance for stupidity. Its the politically correct that are creating the space for stupidity to thrive and the creationists are just filling a niche. So in effect creationism is a creature of the liberal left.
Well, you shouldn’t go out of your way to humiliate children (unless they deserve it :eek:) but we might be going too far out of our way to avoid hurting their self esteem or something.
He quoted it from the internet. Are you saying that stuff on the internet isn’t always true?
When were these “good ol’ days” when there weren’t creationists? Prior to 1970, it used to actually be illegal to teach evolution in public schools in many States.
The quote in the OP is just stupid “kids these days…” ranting.
Yes, let’s step backwards instead of forward. What a great idea!
/sarcasm
I think there’s a good compromise here: don’t be afraid to call someone’s *ideas * “stupid” or grasp of the facts “limited” (“uninformed” might be a better term to use for the person), and to call the person “stubborn” or “close-minded” if they refuse to learn, but calling the person “stupid” is rarely productive and not always as true as it appears to be – so the trend cited by the OP (which I do think is a real trend) isn’t such a bad thing, and needn’t be linked to the lamentable tolerance for “equal time” for theists in inappropriate fora.
Funny, I can’t recall ever having tests handed back in order of grade. The order was random, or the tests were just left in a pile on a desk in front of the class to be sorted out by the students themselves.
Then again, I was one of the smart kids until I got to high school and picked up a whole pile of lazy habits that plagued me for decades after.
I don’t believe the country was any less religious the mid-1970s. And I hate complaints like this. To me the essence of the complaint is that the speaker resents having to make this accommodation other people: he wants to be able to call them dumb if he thinks they’re dumb instead of acknowledging a potential disability, he wants to say they’re weird instead of admitting their tastes might be equally valid, he wants to say it’s their fault if their fat instead of just leaving well enough alone, etc. I think we do sometimes go too far in protecting people from potential criticisms, but if we’ve become more sensitive to other people on the whole that’s definitely a positive to me.
In my school, they got passed out in order by your seating chart.
Damned useless egalitarianism! We didn’t know who had the best and worst grades, so all we could do to judge other kids and make them feel bad about themselves was look around and see who wasn’t sharing their grades.
Tragically, educators nowadays seem to think that kids can learn without being teased and mocked for their temporary deficiencies. No wonder this country is suffering from a lack of manliness that made this country great. Doesn’t matter that menial jobs for the uneducated are disappearing faster than ever, the stupid kids need to be put in their place!
Right, Leaper?
I’m vehemently against “equal time” and the notion that all opinions/ideas are valuable and worthy of being expressed. However, I’m also against groupthink and appeals to authority/convention. If children are not encouraged to challenge, to opine, to debate, and to dissent, then they grow up to be soulless automatons who simply carry out orders. Freedom to express “crazy” ideas is how we get earth-shatting scientific breakthroughs and artistic movements. It’s how we grow.
Labeling individuals and ideas as “stupid” doesn’t do anything but make people afraid to open their mouths. But teaching students how to critique and accept criticism encourages them to think. You can do this without resorting to name-calling or humiliation.
It’s probably the internet. Bullying doesn’t play well on the internet, except in places like this, where many have a common enemy and can attack at will, sure in the knowledge that they have a posse to back them up.
The internet is different. There are people out here who are smarter than you are and don’t need the ad hominem “you’re stupid” to knock you on your proverbial ass.
Your user name is curiously apropos in this discussion as I assume it’s an allusion to a dialog penned by Galileo, which somewhat parallels the situation regarding creationism and science.
(BTW this is in no way an insult as I’m sure all the moderators and admins are aware.)