Weekly Comic Book Discussion 12/29/2004

Cafe Society
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So much suckage, so little time.

:wink:

Actually not. There’s some good stuff this week and I was inspired to start the thread for once.

First, it’s a Marvel skip week, so they’re doing a bunch of one-shot “What Ifs”. I’ve only read some (and admittedly the worst first) but holy frijoles, they suck.

I loved WHAT IF? back when it first came out in the '70s and liked it in it’s later incarnation. There were a couple of rules to doing one right thought, which made it more restrictive than an ELSEWORLDS, but also more rewarding if done right.

  1. Pick a single divergence point and let everything else follow from there. You can’t keep throwing in divergences that don’t flow from the original.

  2. Don’t diverge so far from the regular Marvel Universe that there’s no connnection any more. Yeah, real alternate history allows you to do so, but it doesn’t make a good WHAT IF?

  3. It’s not cute, ironic or interesting if A)everything ends up FAR worse than the real version, B) everything ends up perfect or C) (worst of all) everything ends up back where we started in the real version. It should be different, but not utopian or dystopian.

  4. There’s certain events in the Marvel Universe that NO super-hero based WHAT-IF can change. A big one is the first Galactus story. If you’re playing with a WHAT IF during that period and you’ve gotten rid of the FF, you have to cope with it even if you don’t want to. It’s like setting an alternate history story in 1937, killing off FDR and then NOT dealing with World War II.

Here we go:
What If Aunt May Had Died Instead Of Uncle Ben. Well, um. Everything would end up just the same. (Strike one) There’d be a lot more than one “gimme” (Flash and Harry end up in Juvie prision 'cause they’re doing drugs (among others)? (Strike two) and the writing’s just…baaaad (strike 3). Who is Ed Brubaker anyway? I recognize the name, but I can’t place anything he’s done.

What If Magneto and Professor X had formed the X-Men Together?. Well, apparently we’d have a gibberish plot (why no Cerebro? If Prof. X. could build it on his own, adding Magneto, who’s better at mechanical stuff could only help) with dialogue even worse than normal for Chris “Everyone talks the same and speaks in expositiory dialogue” Claremont. And we’d have a reality no relation to the familiar one. For example–if the X-Men and Magneto weren’t around, how’d hte Z’noxx get beaten? How 'bout Sauron? What about Llandra? How’d Jean get the Phoenix power anyway? It’s just gibberish. Chris, there’s a difference between a “WHAT IF?” and an “ELSEWORLDS”. Learn it.

What If Dr. Doom Had Become The Thing–this one’s really pretty and the dialogue is fun but the story is, again, bad. Why would Ben become The Hulk in the end? It’s not ironic, it doesn’t work in a story-context and it’s just stoopid. (Plus it was telegraphed a mile away)

I haven’t read the others yet, but I have higher hopes.

Strange–I’ve got very high hopes, and no little nervousness about this series. Strazicncsky(sp) did a reboot of Dr. Strange in Spidey #500 and this is the result. I understand his reasoning–with Mordo dead and with Dr. S. as Sorc. Supreme, he’s just too damned tough. Yeah, Ostrander could write THE SPECTRE when he was in that power-level, but no-one else could and Dr. S. was suffering from the same symptoms. That said, while the story’s good, and JMS has his usual wonderful ear for dialogue, the one thing that has me nervous is the fact that we’re not seeing the “right” kind of magic. A large part of Dr. Strange is the cool incantations (“By the hoary hosts of Hoggoth!”) and if you take that, and Ditko’s…look…away, you’re left with just another magic-user. And while this is an interesting magic user, I’d like him to also be Dr. Strange.

Ultimate FF–Dammit, MOVE THE FUCKING STORY ALONG ALREADY. This has got to be the slowest damned paced book in the history of mankind. They shoulda been in the Negative Zone three issues ago. (That said, it’s a lot of fun! :p)

Teen Titans-I’m really not enjoying this storyline (evil future Titans) and I’m glad it’s over.

Legion–I have no idea what to say about this one–I liked it, but it’s not nearly what I was expecting. I was (apparently the only person in the world) enjoying the Abnett/Lanning LoSH and I’m frankly sick of Legion reboots. That said, 1) Damn me if they’re not doing the same thing I praised Abnett/Lanning for: they’re not giving me re-regurgitated Silver Age stories, they’re giving me new stuff. 2) I love the new costume designs and the new “look” for the future. I loved Swan’s future, I loved Giffen’s future, but this is new. 3) The storytelling’s good. My big concern is that…well, where do they go from here? The oppressive government conflict can only last so long and once it’s gone, then what. I’d be a lot more comfortable if I knew this was a limited series.

More later.

Fenris

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It’s “later”.

(One note on WHAT IF? rule #3 above–add the phrase “…unless if flows naturally from the story” to the end. There’s really no way to put an upbeat spin on a story that ends “…and with no Fantastic Four to stop him, Galactus eats the Earth.” :stuck_out_tongue: )

Anyway, the remaining 3

What If General Ross Became The Hulk–I dunno. It wasn’t bad or anything, but at the same time, it felt rushed and incomplete. Just didn’t connect for me.

What If Jessica Jones Joined The Avengers–Weird. Bendis did everything wrong: he spent half the book telling the ‘real’ history of the character so that new readers would understand the “What if”, he gave us an “Everything would be perfect” ending and he made me like it. My only complaint is that he really needed more pages to tell the story–or less pages spent on the ‘real’ history.

What If Karen Page Had Lived though, (also by Bendis) is the best of the lot, IMO. He made the same ‘mistakes’ as he did with the Jessica Jones WHAT IF? (too many pages filling in the reader, etc), but Bendis’s writing was so damned good that I didn’t care. The story felt like an old E.C. Comic…in a good way. Excellent stuff, IMO.

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I believe he is/was the writer on the latest Catwoman series, which is supposed to be quite good.

I didn’t pick up anything today, although I’m tempted by the new Legion of Super Heroes book. I’ve never followed and know almost nothing about the Legion, so I may wait a few issues and see if there’s enough positive buzz to warrant me picking it up.

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Ah no wonder. I dropped the current Catwoman series a while back. Thanks though–I knew I’d heard the name.

LoSH had the tendency to attract really good writers (you kinda have to be to write a book with a cast of 25-40 regular characters) and there’s a lot of good history if you find out you like this series.

But the BIG advantage for you is that this incarnation of LoSH starts in a vacuum. We’re all on the same playing field. This is the first reboot (including the ULTIMATE universe stuff) that seems to be a real reboot from ground zero up and not an excuse to just rehash old stories which means you won’t have to suffer from interminable in-jokes and regurgitated stories that you won’t appreciate unless you read the original.

And the art’s just gorgeous. I’ve never been a big Kitson fan but this stuff is just wonderful and whoever’s doing the coloring deserves a huger raise.

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Superman/Batman #16 by Loeb, Pacheco and Merino.
Sweet, Merciful Rao. Our heroes fight cowboys and talking gorillas as time breaks down around them. It’s it’s… It’s so nutty. And yet, and yet, if you just accept it, accept teh story for what it is, at all makes perfect sense. This book is everything I love about superheroes, adventure and humor in a truly epic setting. The art is great too. A+

Legion of Super-Heroes #1 by Waid and Kitson
At the dawn of the 31st century, the galaxy is nearly a shining utopia. Crime, disaster, and war is all but extinct. So is heroism. Enter the Legion of Super-heroes, a youth movement that looks back to the archaic days of heroism. Will they save the universe, or break the fragile stability it’s lived under for so many generations? This version of the Legion is about youthful rebellion, and the resposibilities of leading one. It works. This vision of the future isn’t quite distopian, just stifling. The L*SH has always been one of the goofier survivors of the silver age (they have silly names and most of them only have the same powers that the rest of their species does), and this take explains why, as the Legionaires are consciously reaching back to the conventions of the golden age of heroism. I like it. LLL. A

**City of Heroes #8 ** by DaKan and McKinney
One of the reasons I like CoH the video game so much is that the villains and city do have a compelling backstory. Why then is this comic so boring? It plods along at a snails pace as it tries to cram in as many references to the game (villain groups, etc) as possible. It’s not totally devoid of cleverness, and the art’s ok (the character designs are awful, but McKinney can’t be blamed for that mostly, as he’s stuck adapting stuff made for the game). There’s also a cringely steretypical butch lesbian. At least it’s free. **C- ** (adjusted for price, A-)

**Teen Titans #19 ** by Johns McKone and Alquiza
The Titans visit to the dark future concludes. It’s a bit syrupy and I’m disappointed that the future history has been kept hidden, although there’s some juicy story hooks there (the Crisis, eh?). McKone’s art is on the ball, and you’ve got to love Johns’ characterizations. Next month is the Identity Crisis tie-in? Damn dude. Didn’t that end like, weeks ago? I didn’t even read the thing and I’m tired of it. Apparently this is why there were so many hanging threads in IC, they’re plot hooks for all of Geoff Johns’ books. I actually did like this one, one nice touch: Cyborg 2.0 has the I-Mac type blue bits that the cartoon version has. B+
It’s also the source of our Quote of the Week!
Superboy: Dude. Batman Sucks. You Rule.

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I don’t think the government is going to be the villains of this piece, but the conflict between them and the Legion will be an ongoing theme. We haven’t really seen who the villains are and how this team will spend its time.

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Only the best writer working in comics right now whose name isn’t “Alan Moore”! Ed Brubaker is the writer of the finest comic on the stands, the espionage-supervillain morality play Sleeper, as well as its gritty prequel miniseries, Point Blank. He turned Catwoman into an interesting, compelling antihero with the current series (he only recently stepped down as writer), and co-writes Gotham Central with Greg Rucka–probably the best comic set in the DC Universe, and it doesn’t even feature any superheroes or costume-wearers. He also recently took over The Authority with a new #1 relaunch, and started writing Captain America as well.

Some of Brubaker’s past works include the semi-autobiographical indie comic A Complete Lowlife, the Sandman spinoff miniseries Dead Boy Detectives, and the outstanding Vertigo crime-noir miniseries Scene of the Crime: A Little Piece of Goodnight, with his Gotham Central art collaborator Michael Lark.

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Fenris, I can’t say much, but I’ve heard the plots of 2 and 3. Trust me. There’s a lot coming for the Legion. And, of course, it all comes down to what Cos chooses. The right thing or the safe thing.

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Hey! But isn’t the main criticism of the other Ultimate titles is that they go through plots way too quickly just to satisfy the TPB market? “Ground control to Awesome…” Heh.

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Dude! We start these on Thursday, to give everyone a chance to read their stuff!

Tch, tch. Oh, well. Good thing I checked before opening up a new one…

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Stuff this Week:

Superman/Batman : Loved it. If for no other reason, the cameos. It’s not every day you get to see Jonah Hex and Scalphunter kick Superman and Batman’s butts.

Teen Titans : I liked the dark future story, but I’m glad to be getting back to the normal flow of things.

Legion : I’ve been an on-again, off-again Legion reader for years. I really like this new incarnation so far. And, personally, given the context, I think “Eat it, Grandpa” is a contender for Quote of the Week.

Ultimate Fantastic Four : It is a bit slow - but it’s not as slow as a lot of the Marvel books have been for the last five years, and it’s a fun ride so far.

More to come.

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I considered it. In fact, you can see where I cut it off in my reviews above. But out of context, it’s not so great.

I take the Quote of the Week very seriously. :cool:

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:confused: Reallly? I’ve seen criticism of certain choices they made (Sensor’s new look and ‘Jarth’ (both of which I really like, personally), specifically), but comments on their version I’ve seen have been generally positive - and DC kept them on the series for several years running, so they must have been doing something right.

I haven’t gotten LoSH yet, but, despite not being terribly keen on the fact it was rebooted (and I’m kind of concerned about if this is going to effect the Flash-family in any way, given how important 30th/31st century characters are to several characters in it), I’m looking forward to it. And I’m fairly impressed with the new look of the 31st century, and most of the new costumes - Cos’s specifically. Garth’s (which name’d they go with for him?) is pretty bad, though, IMO. Whoall is there, BTW? Obviously Cos, Garth, Saturn Girl, Sun Boy, Triad, Brainie, Invisible Kid. I’m seeing characters I assume to be Starboy, Vi, Umbra and Element Lad, and one I fear is Cham. Beyond that I’m stumped.

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Indeed! I really think Fenris should feel embarrassed he didn’t know who Ed Brubaker was.

I liked the first issue of Legion, but I too am getting so very tired of all the reboots. How many have there been, now? Remember the good old days, when you just dealt with existing continuity, instead of just throwing it out?

My favorite gag was “he has the ability to shrink himself to only six feet tall.”

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Okay, my turn.

Superman/Batman: I really love the book, especially because as a new DC reader, it does a wonderful job of introductions across the DCU. But some of the internal dialogue is getting a bit lame. Superman’s “Hero.” was a perfect example of the patheticness it’s coming to.

JSA: Strange Adventures: I need to give this another read - I feel asleep halfway through. But it’s also a good intro to the DCU’s other half. I do know now that the JSA isn’t my cup of tea - just a little too “golly gee” for me.

Ult. Fantastic Four: It may be slow paced, but they really do set this book up for big things. Can anyone tell me they weren’t impressed by the writers taking 4 pages for 2 huge splashes, and another 1 page for more non-dialogue landscape? Awesome.

Ult. Nightmare: Sorta lost me on this one. The “stay tuned next month” ending two issues in a row is tiresome. There just wasn’t much in this issue to warrant the money.

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JSA : Strange Adventures was a bit of a snoozer this week, but it’s the calm before the Storm, hopefully. Was anyone else struck by the fact that Lord Dynamo’s abilities appear to be exactly what Mr. Terrific’s schtick is supposed to be?

Various What If’s?

I’m a huge What If? Fan. With the exception of one or two aberrations, I own the entire second volume of What If?, and decent chunks of the first. So, naturally, I picked up the new ones. Except the Daredevil/Karen Page one, because as I pointed out, to the amusement of my local comic store employees. “It’s Daredevil. Daredevil sucks.” Must’ve been the delivery. :wink:

So, What If General Ross Had Become the HULK? - I liked it. It was a fairly tight little vignette, in a Twilight-Zone style mold, with Uatu channeling Serling in fine form.

What If Aunt May Had Died Instead of Uncle Ben? - Hokey narration from the stoner and the comic book guy. Interesting destination for the character - more well-adjusted, fighting crime with his Uncle Ben - but the journey to that destination was a yawner. Should’ve glossed over it in two pages, and got to something interesting.

What If Jessica Jones Joined the Avengers? - Criticisms about recapping too much of Jessica’s actual story : valid. Still, it was necessary, because half the comic readers Marvel wants to buy this issue don’t know jack squat about Jessica Jones, nor care about her. Of course, to sensible people, this would mean “We probably shouldn’t do a What If? about her, then…” But they were feeling the need to kiss Bendis’s butt, apparently. For anyone upset with Bendis’s Avengers finale, this is salt in the wound, bigtime. “The Avengers would’ve been just fine, if only Marvel had included my precious fourth-tier character in the line-up, aren’t I special?” Jeez. I love Powers, but I really really want to hit Bendis for this issue.
What If Dr. Doom Had Become The Thing? - Possibly my second favorite of the batch. (After the Ross one) It felt the most like a real What If? story. It did feel a bit abbreviated, though. Could’ve used a little more development of Doom and Reed’s working relationship, or snapshots of their future conflicts.
What If Magneto and Professor X had formed the X-Men Together? Eh. I know nothing of Sage, so her presence as a major influence is disconcerting. This series really felt like they’re gonna launch some new alternate-reality X-series, with the way it ended and all. Then again, naked Kitty Pryde, so, 10 bonus points.

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So far the only thing I’ve read is:

Legion of Super-Heroes #1 – I too really enjoyed the DnA Legion (although the first half of their run with LoDamned, LLOST, and LWorlds was better than the last half). This issue started really slow but I was shocked by what we saw when they got to the planet. Waid is a writer I like but he’s also penned some misses. (His FF run was so dreadfully boring I dropped it in the middle of an arc – I don’t think I’d ever done that before.) I’ll definitely try the next few issues, but it’ll take some work for these characters to supplant the DnA Legion in my mind. (Talk about incongruous – Shady makes a quip in her very first line of dialogue; that’s sure not the Umbra that I know.)

–Cliffy

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Warren Ellis is one of my all-time favorite writers, though I’ve only read his comics. I wonder if his style translates well in books? Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that Marvel, comic book shops make a ton of money on TBs. I was discussing this as I got into a conversation with a bunch of people at my local shop. TBs are a win-win situation for the publisher, the shops, and the writers. Publishers make money off stuff that’s already sold (combine that with Marvel’s already broken no reprints policy); writers/creators/artists have another venue to market their talents, individual collectors don’t have to bust open their carefully sealed packs, TBs can be now more easily sold at places like Borders b/c they have a more formidable shelf life. The only problem is the format that is most efficient for the publisher is the 6 book format. This means that there are going to be a lot of 6 book arcs. Some stories aren’t told that way. Ellis is a very efficient writer. I’ve already noticed a lot of fluff added.

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I rarely participate in these threads b/c I have a hard time making it to the shop before Saturday.

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Do’t worry about it, mazinger – just bump 'em like I usually do!

–Cliffy