At this point I don’t think metagaming is going to get us anywhere, especially as we have a lot of facts now (thanks to ill-advised claims) that can elucidate some of the game structure–
Two of our claimed power roles are percentage chance roles, and one’s an inventor. That can potentially point to a lot of weaker power roles, or weaker power roles in general. I would not be surprised to see a relatively higher number of lesser powers in the game, for example.
Secondly, at least two of our three claimed power roles have expressly self-characterized as being inept law enforcement. That fits in with color, granted, and could point to someone being the lone hero gunman (if we’re sticking to tropes) but I wouldn’t count on it.
You’re playing in a closed setup game right now–no one knows anything outside their specific role PM.
An “open setup” game is where everyone has knowledge of what power roles there are, how many scum there are, exactly what each power role can do, etc.
A “semi-open setup” (my personal favorite) is where some of the roles and powers are publicly known and some are not–basically, a game where the roles/factions are named (especially if the existence of third parties are revealed) but specific numbers or powers are not known.
Ugh. Firefox ate my long and detailed post on the above. Here is a summary, and reasons.
**
I am glad to have the support in Story, Zeriel, and Allwalker.**
I agree, and have gone on record in the past, this game, and others, as stating that I am an easy bandwagon, and that pushing my buttons would at LEAST be debated on a scum board.
Special Ed is named a few times above, but he is not who I am out for. We have a history in Glyph, and I can not ignore that history. You can’t not play favorites in MAFIA. It will lead to less than optimal play, but it will happen, regardless. The degree might vary, but you can not say that it does not exist in the game. Ed gets a pass for now, but he is not off my radar completely.
So, my longer post looked at Joey:
I was looking over in LOST when my post got eaten. I was called out for using choice language. You escaped the same fate. Do not worry, I’m not voting policy here, but, I need to bring it up, so that I can pair it with other points.
You, like me, expend more energy on this game than we probably should. We get connected to it at a level that is perhaps, frankly speaking, in a strict sense, not healthy in large doses.
You are bouncing back and forth on me and Booze. Perhaps spliting up this way waters down your scum intention, perhaps it is a counter measure after your scum mates tell you to cool it, and or undo what you just did.
But, further, you basically admit that you vote me, because you do not understand me. If it is not a vote, it comes out as asking for me to be Subbed. [And in a game where I am very active, (Post count be darned), and we have some stragglers that probably should be subbed, (Sorry RoOsh, nothing personal) asking for me to be subbed, instead of voting me is strictly worse.
You vote / ask to sub me because you say you do not understand me.
You then ask for other people to not vote you, because you claim you are misunderstood.
**
You are gunning for me, and we danced a dance. I’m thinking that its more scum motivated than not. **
I believe that you and your scum mates [and again, I am not ruling out Special Ed] were trying to go for an easy bandwagon.
At worst, you guys saw me as an easy target for day 1.
At best, you guys recognize me for the player I really am, and know that I am too much of threat for you guys.
Either way, you attack me for being one way, and then you hypocritically defend yourself in much the same way.
Something isn’t right here.
It’s not OMGUS, because I elaborate on reasons, and back up my reasons with things i have said in this game.
But in so many ways, those before me have put it better. If you, and indeed others can not understand me, perhaps you would be more lenient when I offer what I can, and then also point to other’s posts.
I have my reasons, if you do not accept them, for whatever reason, then, accept it at the very least as a well founded “Me Too!” vote. Vote Joey
In your defense, I find “” good to know “” , good to know as well. I also was unaware of what it meant. [And you guys thought i was hard to understand.]
Obviously, I snipped the above. I carried over the quotes in a preliminary draft, before the post that got eaten. After it was eaten, I re-pasted the quotes, as I still had them in the clipboard, and I wasn’t about to go re hunt them.
Alright, I think I see what you are saying. In the first place, you saw BSPI place an unjustified vote where I saw a justified vote, a difference arising from Mafia lingo. And then post in 346 there is confusion over “two posts later”, ie, exactly which post was being referred to there.
Specifically, the confusion arose from this:
Not inherently ambiguous - story specifically says two posts after making it. Well, we all make mistakes - not necessarily Scummy.
It’s still an antiTown play. I mean, I have done it in previous games, where it turned out Meeko and I were both Town. So it could be Town-on-Town, but there is incentive for Scum-on-Town as well. Hell, there could even be an argument for Scum-on-Scum.
Tell you what - I’ll leave my vote tenuously where it is for now. I’ll look at the case against Oredigger and any others that might arise. But for now…
Errr, Ummm, you’re comparing apples to oranges here. You are misunderstood because many of your questions are, well, non-sensical, and really have no place being asked. IMO, they just hinder the game. I was mis-understood in the sense that me and a few other players were all discussing a post and later it turned out we all thought we were talking about different posts. Does that make sense? I asked for you to be sub/voted becuase I was annoyed with your play style. My discussion over being misunderstood was due to something entirely different.
Does that make sense? It’s not fair to make that comparison.
No, I really didn’t. I defend myself by providing all the posts that show how and why the mis-understaing occurred. Some of it my fault for mis-understading someone else, some of it VBB’s (the software) fault for the way it parses nested quotes and making the mis-understading even worse. That’s totally different then me ‘mis-understading’ you’re entire play style.
You’re right. This isn’t an OMGUS vote. I’m not even sure why you would feel the need to mention that it’s not.
And, Even if I were to concede your point, my point remains. It’s not nice to get hung out to dry from a misunderstanding, is it?
But, that aside, I still think you are after me for inflated reasons. [That is, you have Joey reasons for me, and you are then inflated after that, by Scum reasons.]
What do you mean “finally”? When I voted you I specifically gave the reason that you were ‘making the game not fun.’ I didn’t hide that fact at the time. You even quoted it just upthread a few posts.
Again, you being ‘mis-understood’ and me being ‘mis-understood’ are for such incredibly different reasons I don’t find it fair to group them. It be like Joe Cocker going up Beatles and saying “So, how do you guys handle being mis-understood?”
Get what I’m doing there. The Beatles are mis-understood because some of their songs don’t make sense (Glass Onion for example), Joe Cocker is mis-understood because he mumbles. Two things that are so different, even though you can use the same word to describe them, it has a different meaning for each situation.
I do have ‘Joey’ reasons for voting you. I don’t care for your play style and I’m trying my best to not cross paths with you anymore. Make of it what you will, but those are my reasons. It wasn’t fair, I unvoted, and that’s all there is to it.
Well, I’ve been busy all day and expected to come back to pages upon pages to catch up on.
Nice to see that isn’t the case.
Despite his bad call when it comes to my play, I have to agree with CIAS about Oredigger. He was scummy yesterDay and CIAS’s analysis has got me more confident in my feeling, not because I trust him yet, but because he is a rather bright and perceptive guy who is good at making compeling cases against people, frequently articulating thoughts in a way that I am not able to. (again, sorry for the full of shit comment.)
**Is “covering all the bases” code for scum checking, re-checking and checking again that their alibi is bulletproof?
**
I’m not faulting you NAF, or Cat, for that matter, but, I think you guys are playing major league ball here, and we have some minor leaguers, some who just came from the farm team.
:eek:
Write it down, Meeko is asking someone to water something down.
Even though I don’t normally post as much as a lot of players, I do generally try to post on issues as they come up. I have gotten so far behind toDay, that I decided just to look at each player, and see what I thought. I promise if I have this much trouble keeping up toMorrow, I will ask for a sub. Roosh - Has been absent today. Essentially FOSed Tom S. yesterDay. Pretty much a null tell. Did say his computer broke.
USCDiver - Neutral. Seems to sort of passively defend pede about the “win condition”, but may just think Meeko is making unwarranted assumptions.
**Nanook of the North Shore **- Some back and forth with Meeko. Looks like he could have been winding Meeko up a bit, but Special Ed looked like that, also, and he was town. Called out cucuy on claiming. Other than possibly winding Meeko, nothing really scummy looking, but nothing that screams town either.
MHaye - Was a bit surprised when I went and reread his posts. Most of his Day 1 posts are just generally helpful posts, but not really all that much about what is happening specifically in this game. Does vote near the end of the Day giving reasons and makes a plausible case. Has not been heard from today, but considering my own post count, I can hardly hold that against him. Still, he leans toward the scummy side for me.
storyteller0910 - I am possibly biased because I pretty much agreed with everything that storyteller posted (except I find Meeko more difficult to understand than he does), but I get a strong town vibe from him. The vibe, though, comes from his overall play. There is no one thing I can point to and say he is town.
**cucuy **- has claimed a town power role, so I am going to assume for the time being he is town.
AllWalker - I am leaning toward AllWalker being town. His case against JoeyP was reasonable, not forced . He does tend to acknowledge both sides of the argument which I have seen some people think of as a scum tell (though I don’t think anyone in this game has said that), but since I tend to do that too, I think it is pretty much null. He does take a side and make a case.
CatInASuit - I am tending toward town. Looking over his posts, I can’t quite put my finger on why I am not as convinced of his towniness as storyteller’s. CIAS is working hard at the game and building some excellent cases. I guess it could be that story’s posts seem like things I myself may have wanted to say, while CIAS’s give me things to think about, but don’t necessarily reflect what I was thinking beforehand. So I tend to think it may just be the bias I mentioned in story’s section.
Oredigger77 - Has had cases built against him. Looking at the cases players have built and going back and looking at Oredigger’s posts, I have to say he is my top suspect for scum right now. while other players have given more detail in their cases against Oredigger, the main thing that stuck out for me was his reluctance to change his policy vote even after there were several other things occurring that could justify a vote. It seemed he was wanting to keep his vote where there was no chance of the person getting lynched and showing he was in on a mislynch.
**Zeriel **- I lean toward town on Zeriel. But a lot of his post dealt with attempted hand-shaking and he hasn’t spent that much time on scum-hunting (yes, I know I haven’t either, but he has been here posting). It is possible that his attempted hand-shake was some sort of scum ploy, but I doubt it.
Boozahol Squid, P.I. - has claimed a one-shot vig. I am assuming he is town for now.
pedescribe - I am going to say neutral on this one. I have seen the cases against him and I can’t blame players for coming to the conclusion they have, but I also realize that for some of the things, the heat could have been on me. It is just that he happened to post first. Meeko is pushing the fact that he mentioned prostitutes and not roleblockers. When I saw the original list of role speculations (I think it was by Oredigger), I almost immediately thought of Saloon Keeper and Prostitute. I didn’t really think of any specific roles for the saloon keeper, but I almost immediately thought of poisoner for prostitute. I also thought of Paranoid Doc, probably because I recently played that role in the Ragnarok game where I was Freja, the goddess of love. I do wonder where he got the idea for prostitutes being Masons, though. His mention of his win condition may be more problematic, but Zeriel seemed to think hand-shaking may be possible after he said it, so without saying anything in regards to what my PM said, I tend to think he was accurate. Whether scum know what the vanilla PM said is an open question, I guess. His anti-handshake policy does seem to be legitimate and not something made up for convenience. If anyone has information from other games that would contradict this, please let us know.
NAF1138 - has claimed inventor. I am assuming he is town for now.
JoeyP - I lean toward the scummy side. His defenses for the charges people are making against him are reasonable and if it was any one thing, I probably wouldn’t think too much about it. It is just everything put together that seems to tilt him to the scummy side. The first think that made me suspicious was his vote for Booze yesterDay, but Freudian got lynched for essentially the same thing and turned up town. Sometimes, it does seem that he is trying to wind up Meeko, but I thought it looked like that with Special Ed sometimes, too. I think AllWalker has outlined the best case against him.
Meeko - I think Meeko has outed himself as a town power role. I think I will not commment on him any further than that.
If you don’t skim my posts, you will see earlier I mentioned pedescribe, joeyp and Oredigger77 as the three players I was leaning scum on. I have done post analysis on pedescribe and Oredigger77 and AllWalker did one on JoeyP.
Of those three, I consider Oredigger77 most likely to be scum.
Covering all bases is perfectly good English and not code at all. It means trying to word your statements so that regardless of the outcome you can say you were thinking along the right lines.
1.I don’t see anything wrong with asking you to re-confirm, or indeed, to ask you if you still maintain your assumption.
You would think that it is “perfectly good english”, but apparently, that is not always good enough for MAFIA. I always find this out the hard way.
As it is, I’m not sure I understand your clarification. I think you want to say, it is a way for Scum to be non commital on somehting, and thus hide their scumminess.
Fair enough point and so far nothing has occured to make me change my assumptions
Your interpretation of my clarification is not quite accurate. It is not only being non-commital, but also making statements that could be used to support two opposite arguments at a later point in time.
As an example: Oredigger77 #204: IMHO, his post reads as though, at a later date, he could support the arguments both for and against Tom Scud being scum depending on what context was required at the time.
Well, guys, I think we might be in a serious bind. but since we only have a little more then 24hrs left in the day and my lynch mob seems to be growing;
I am your humble town Slut, basically I am the town’s role blocker. Last night I slept with Allwalker and he had “an oddly wonderful night”. I appreciate him keeping quiet about it but at least I can be confirmed, unless he is scum.
So now that we’ve revealed another power role and most of us have got to be out of the closet at this time what are we going to do?
Okay, first things first is that I can verify part of Oredigger’s story. I did receive a little love last Night. Slightly different wording from what Oredigger said, but close enough. I even dropped in a reference shortly after Dawn of Day 2 (post 503)
I see no rules preventing me from posting the PM, so here’s what i woke to:
Title: Night Happening
You had a wonderful Night of passion. You won’t forget that any time soon!
So here are the possibilities:
Oredigger and I are both Scum, and are conspiring to cover his arse
Oredigger is telling the truth
Oredigger is Scum, I am not, and someone on the Scum team slutted it up with yours truly. Oredigger is claiming to cover his arse
Oredigger is Town but is lying about being a role blocker.
I’ll tell you this - I can safely rule out number 1. But the rest of you can’t, so that doesn’t help.
Number 2 is certainly possible. This game could have roleblockers in the form of Town Sluts.
Number 3 is statistically but not logically higher, as if one Scum has this power the first one in trouble can claim to possess it. I’m thinking of Scum Doctors from other games. And it would certainly be weird. But I would guess based on nothing but intuition that this probably isn’t the case.
Number 4 is possible - a useless power that can be used to role claim.