Missed edit window: Intended first link for post #59. I was part of the remain campaign. There are lessons in Brexit: The Uncivil War | Will Straw | The Guardian
This graph shows that the value of the British Pound has fallen from €1.42 or $1.50 in November 2015 to €1.12 or $1.24 today. Is this:
(a) an unimportant fluctuation which will probably reverse itself;
(b) unrelated to Brexit;
(c) due to Brexit and good for the U.K; or
(d) due to Brexit but bad for the U.K.?
I’m no economist or currency expert, but I think it’s a little of all four. Some correction was probably warranted regardless of Brexit and that part could be described as unrelated, I doubt it will reverse itself in the short or medium term though (I think the UK’s economic outlook relative to other countries is weakening rather than strengthening, if only due to demographics). The fall is good for some parts of the UK economy and bad for others, as with any currency fluctuation. I don’t think it’s had a big impact overall. For the average person, their foreign holidays have become more expensive, but (until the pandemic hit) their investments may also have done a little better as a result (because a lot of the UK stock market constituents earn the bulk of their revenue overseas).
The whole of this debate is framed in the pejorative tone of the OP.
I guess that is the right of the OP, but we could equally frame the very same question in exactly the reverse.
- Were people who voted to Remain in the EU selfish*
After all, the Remain camps have bleated and whinnied for the last couple of years taking every single opportunity to insult the age, maturity and intelligence of those who voted to leave, and all this on the basis that Remain did not get it’s own way which it clearly took for granted as a given.
Instead of accepting the result many Remainers whine and winge on about a democratic decision that was taken by the majority of the population. I agree that Remainers have a right to feel concerned and express that view - but the position of many Remainers around two years on is far from acceptance, it is still blaming and frequently abusive - the very definition of childish and selfish.
I have agreed that there were plenty of fabrications in the Leave campaign, however it is worth noting that when the fabrications and false predictions made by the Remain campaigners have not materialised and indeed were at least as false as Leave’s falsehoods, the Remainers simply do not acknowledged the lies their side of the campaign, pushed at a public that they expected to frighten and corral into voting in their way.
We will never know just how many folk were misled into a position that would have been different but for the falsehoods of the opposite campaign but given that the effects upon the economy were a major plank in all the campaigns I would say that the false predictions had a significant effect in making the vote to Leave rather closer than it would otherwise have been - the gap would have been a lot wider, and it is on the basis of this narrow gap that Remain campaigners get their pet lips out and suck on their collective thumbs crying ‘foul’ - all the while being at least as divisive as any aspect of the Brexit vote.
The decision was made, Remain cannot cope with it because they lack the maturity to deal with it and instead of trying to get on board and work toward the best outcome it seems to me that Remain would be happy to talk the markets down and submerge themselves into the economic depths rather than gracefully accept the choice that has been made.
How could the economic predictions of Leaving be proven true or false? You haven’t Left yet - it is apparently still in a transition period.
Remain was very clear on this, even the Bank of England made the prediction that the result of the vote itself would be the trigger for economic meltdown, add to that the government had publicised that it was making contingency plans in the event of Leave vote to deal with the expected economic collapse.
So, in answer to your point - nope.
Motes and beams, man. Motes and beams.
As indeed there were.
This is not true. Most of them did not materialise immediately, largely because there was no clarity whatsoever over what Brexit would actually look like or even whether it would happen. Once it was clear that it was happening, the projected movement of jobs to the Continent began, UK businesses and institutions started getting cut off from resources, and the pound continued its downward slide.
The article about the BoE you posted even explains this, in stating that the economic projections failed to fully account for “irrational behaviour”. This is not in any way a validation of your position.
This is also not true. Virtually nothing Leave promised turned out to be true.
…lies you have yet to substantiate…
…says the campaign supported by literally decades of anti-EU and anti-immigrant falsehoods, many of which were repeated during the campaign despite the desperate attempts of some to rewrite history.
But let’s explore who are really “fearmongering”. Was it:
A) “Project Fear” and “If the UK leaves the EU, it will have a significant negative economic effect”; or
B) The entirely reason-based Leave campaign and “If the UK does not leave the EU, we will be overrun by immigrants, unelected bureaucrats will take all your tax money, and prawn crisps will be illegal”*?
Conversely, if the Leave campaign hadn’t lied continuously and been supported by a further campaign of lies in the Mail, Sun and Telegraph, they probably would have lost.
Just a reminder that before the referendum when the polls suggested that Leave were likely to lost 48-52, several Leave campaign figures vowed that they would contest the result and demand another referendum. Once the result turned out the other way, suddenly the outcome was the unalterable will of the people and we had to “respect democracy”.
Also, despite actually winning, Leavers have not stopped whinging for one moment about how unfair it all is that they’re not getting the unicorn-that-farts-rainbows they were promised and how clearly it is the fault of Remain that this is so. The reason Theresa May couldn’t do an end run around Parliament? The fault of Remainers (and judges that were branded “ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE”). The reason no one could agree exactly on what Brexit should look like? The fault of Remainers in Parliament. The fact that no one in the administration was able to answer a straight question about Brexit planning? Anti-Leave bias in the media.
Is this the sort of maturity you mean?
I have often observed the tendency of Leavers to blame the consequences of their actions on Remain (now that they can no longer blame the EU). How clever of you to do so pre-emptively - now you too can blame Remain when the things the Remain campaign predicted continue to come to pass.
*Just joking about the last one - that’s an anti-EU lie Boris personally made up a decade before the referendum.