It’s obvious they’re trying to redefine a lot of characters. CJ is apparently now the White House Jiminy Cricket. Toby is looking to move up. Josh is looking to hook up. Donna is trying to get back in the show. And Will, despite having been around for a year now, is suddenly fallen back to being the “new guy” as if he had shown up last week.
It was fun seeing Gary Cole on West Wing and then seeing him again on Karen Cisco. All I needed was a Brady Bunch movie and I could have had a retrospective.
I didn’t like the speech gaffe. It was telegraphed so clumsily that I half expected them to go for the joke by not using it.
Damning with faint praise, it wasn’t as bad as last week.
But still… wasn’t this a WKRP episode? And didn’t they do it better?
I honestly thought that the writers had forgotten Bartlet was a nobel prize winner based on that stupid scene with the advisors - until they mentioned it (I guess to say that they really had seen an episode of the show or two before they started writing).
And what was that with Will being the new guy - he’s been there for 9 months. He wrote the state of the union. They know, by now, whether or not he’s going to work out.
And josh’s assistant annoys me even more than Mandy did…which is saying a lot.
I wonder if the actors get the scrips and think to themselves, “This shit sucks! Rob Lowe sure did get out at the right time.”
Just to echo…
Whoa, there’s a preview for ROK on…
ok, sorry…
The dialogue seems off, not as fast paced. The WW only seems to be facing a single issue every episode, as opposed to the two, or even three that we’ve seen in previous seasons. Do the writers think we’re too dumb to keep up?
I’m very new to watching this show, but I was definitely impressed with the acting tonight. So, the pres is a Nobel lauriet? I thought I heard it wrong during the show, but I guess not. That sure bumps it down several notches on the believability scale. A non-Peace Prize Nobel lauriet as president? I don’t think so…
I was surprised there was no feedback from the pres on the speach FUBAR. Maybe next week…?
Bartlett is a Nobel Laurerate in Economics, and I fail to see why this is less believeable that a Nobel Peace Prize recipient as President. Frankly, I think it highly unlikely that a Peace Prize winner could be elected President, it’s hardly an award given to mainstream, inside-the-lines type individuals. The rest of the Nobel awards are more along the lines of a Rhoades scholarship–vaguely recognized as a “good” thing.
As for the show itself–it’s nice to see the White House discovering electric lighting and opening the curtains again, but it is still much too dark. I think the actors should revolt over the changes to their characters–Josh was somewhat on point when he teased Donna, but awkward in the wrong way when talking to Amy. C.J., Toby and Leo are all flat, and Bartlett just seems tired. I’m not giving up–yet–but I’m not optimistic.
Maybe I should stop watching the re-runs on Bravo, just to keep my expectations is check.
I didn’t think that they were implying that Will was a “new guy”. Toby kept pointing out that Will was working out well because Toby wants to switch jobs somehow.
And while there were some awkward moments, I thought that at least two of the plots were handled quite well, namely, the pianist and the vice presidential nominee… I like Bingo Bob a lot, so far.
I think turning Amy into the character of “Josh’s Girlfriend” is a big mistake. It’s not like Mary-Louise Parker has a large enough role or is an actress with enough clout to actually change anything (hell, if Martin Sheen et al. aren’t rising up against against what’s being done, it’s doubtful she will), but her character is NOT the same person it was last year.
Amy got her job because she impressed the hell out of the First Lady as a person who is intelligent, cunning, and able to step up to the table and go head to head with the men of Washington. She’s been in all four episodes this season and the ONLY thing we’ve seen her do is be a shoulder for the First Lady and make out with Josh. Make out with Josh? In the West Wing? What?
One of her defining character traits is that Amy gets absolute joy in being in control and playing at a level that’s always one better than Josh. These last two episodes she’s been positively…doting.
It’s the little things, you know? The minor details are what makes you come back for more.
I thought this was the best episode of the season so far, but still not anywhere near up to the standard we’ve come to expect.
I’ve been yelling at Josh and Amy to define their relationship in some way or another for 2 years. Glad to see the writers are finally hearing me. (No, I’m not really that egotistical).
CJ has always been something of the conscience for the group, and as long as they don’t turn her into a simpering moralist, I’m not opposed to ratcheting that up a not.
The Will and Toby parodying the speech to get over the hump was brilliant and believeable. As a writer and speechwriter I’ve used the exact same technique to loosen up for difficult or unpleasant writing assignments. Luckily, I’ve never had the wrong version go out.
Bartlett and Leo need some major work, and I agree Josh is too inconsistent. This man is brilliant and flawed by his own intellect. The writers are not catching that and instead having him vascillate between being a Machiavellian jerk and a yammering dork. Not good. Josh is my favorite character, and, for me, as he goes so goes the show.
I agree that Toby was talking about Will working out in his role as deputy communications director. It’s not a “new guy” thing, it’s a relatively short period of time in a majorly important role. You can’t assess how well he’s working out in a couple of weeks. I wonder what role Toby is shooting for in terms of “defining the message”. I can’t think of a postition other than Comm. Dir. where he could have any more influence than he does.
My $0.02, bumped to a dime because I’m long-winded tonight.
Someone shoot this show and put it out of its misery.
Donna’s ham-handed handling of the diet analogy for economic policy was ridiculous, and would have been handled much more subtly by Sorkin. Toby and Will are professionals, for God’s sake, and 1) Toby would not have been screaming about what a mediocrity Russell is with the office door open and 2)They are not so stupid as to leave their comments in what is essentially a short introductory speech.
Amy and Josh? Please. Although they are doing a very good job hiding Parker’s pregnancy.
There was no tension with the N. Korean wannabe defector, and there was too much Prez. This show is about the staff, and the Prez is supposed to a secondary character.
It’s such a disappointment to watch the incredibly well-written shows on Bravo and then tune into this crap. Last night on Bravo was the beginning of the reveal of POTUS’s MS, with Charley having an integral role of realizing that FLOTUS had lied about her husband’s illness. It’s so much better when they throw away a line and then forty five minutes later it’s explained, rather than having everything spelled out as you go.
It’s very disappointing to me because I care about the characters, but it’s disintegrating. I may have an opening soon in my tv viewing Wed at 9pm. Even the previews of upcoming shows failed to grab my interest.
Why didn’t the President just say to the pianist, “We can’t help you defect right now because of the negotiations going on, but we’ll invite you back in a few months, and let you do it then”.
My fave part was Josh struggling to not joke about cheese when Donna’s uncle said his occupation. Nice subtle touches.
Funny about the speech. Just this a.m. I got an e-mail from HQ apologizing for the hyperlink inadvertently included in a prior e-mail. And I recall when a colleage dummied up a form with some language critical of a judge, and - you guessed it.
Dagnabbit! I thought that they weren’t going to show it (again) because of the World Series, so didn’t bother to watch or tape. These guys are really killing their core constituency.
The moment Will started typing the “mediocrity” speech into his computer, I knew it would end up on the prompter. And the moment Bingo Bob saw the speech on the prompter, I knew he was going to be a good sport about it.
At least they got it right when the President’s was able to seamlessly ad lib without an embarrassing incident. We already know he’s capable of it (which is more than I can say for some Presidents I could mention).
Really? If you hadn’t have said that, I was ready to come in here and declare the whole speech incident as pathetic on the WW writers’ part. Huh.
Really, she’s pregnant? I thought she just got a boob job.
Despite my misgivings about the speech incident, I thought that the entire plotline involving the Korean pianist was brilliant. Bartlett’s lines were right on cue, Leo was very much in character, and CJ was the only slip.
I like the Bingo Bob character as well. I think it speaks well of the man that he understands (yes writers, we know he understands becuase you’ve told us 5 times both shows he’s been in) how…blah he is. Just a body to fill the spot untill the next term.
I don’t think it was out of line for CJ to speak like she did. Remember the episode when the US was negotiating the lease on the army base with [a middle eastern country, I think] and she got so upset because of the way they treated their women. (If I recall correctly, they’d locked some in a theater and burned it down). It seems like the same person.
I like the Bingo Bob character as well. I think it speaks well of the man that he understands (yes writers, we know he understands becuase you’ve told us 5 times both shows he’s been in) how…blah he is. Just a body to fill the spot untill the next term.
I don’t think it was out of line for CJ to speak like she did. Remember the episode when the US was negotiating the lease on the army base with [a middle eastern country, I think] and she got so upset because of the way they treated their women. (If I recall correctly, they’d locked some in a theater and burned it down). It seems like the same person.
I don’t have a problem with CJ having a conscience. But lately it seems all she’s been is a conscience. I’d hate to see a complex character being reduced to a single personality trait.
As for the speech thing, I’m not saying it couldn’t have happned in real life. But as part of a television script it was pathetically handled. As amarinth posted, it was written at the level of a WKRP episode. You almost expected to hear a “wha-wha-whaaaa” sound effect when the speech appeared on the teleprompter.
Imagine how Sorkin would have handled the same idea. He would have foreshadowed the scene in the office so subtly we would have been genuinely surprised when the speech appeared later. Or he might have played the office scene as it was and then have the speech go off without a problem, making the punchline of the joke being his defying of the obvious.