So I’m watching tonight’s episode, on tape, and I realise that there is something terribly familiar about this: The Josh verus Woman’s Rights Advocate (name and job title, anyone, or do I have to find the spot on the tape?) is lifted from the heated halls of our own Great Debates, in this thread, Let’s Get Some Hookers. Josh is Stoid and the Woman is Wring It’s a bit wierd when art imitates the Dope. Or maybe there are Sorkin spies sifting through the archives for good material.
Otherwise, liked the impassioned plea which CJ made to the Military Woman (CJCoS? Sec Def?), but thought that she was fairly out of line in a couple of other areas, like bringing it into Toby’s meeting.
And in the Soap Opera department, I’ve also got a crush on the woman whom Josh apparently has a crush on. Oh, and I caught a snippet of Adventures in Babysitting this week, the part where Josh is telling off Elisabeth Shue.
Yeah, CJ probably shouldn’t have made an analogy using the Nazis to WW2 Vets in the meeting. I guess she was trying to make a point to Toby? What good would that do? Otherwise, I totally agreed with her.
Hehehe, I liked it when the woman chucked a water balloon and Josh’s head. That was funny.
My husband asked an excellent question tonight; what exactly is Sam’s job? Doesn’t he have anything better to do than chase after seemingly pointless things like pennies and seatbelts? Or is this part of a slow and deliberate plot to alienate poor Sam?
I normally like the show a lot, but I found last night’s episode sub-par for a lot of reasons:
Too many issues - I feel like I get “compassion fatigue” when so many issues that are so important and clearly required top priority are thrust at me; I recognize that it is probably what being in the White house is like, but within the confines of an hourly drama, I find it lacking focus and exhausting
Too formulaic - okay, just like ER has the shaky-cam-riding-on-the-gurney POV to rev up the energy, West Wing as the walk-down-the-hallway,-criss-crossing-dialogue way to rev up the energy. Don’t these people ever sit at their desks and accomplish anything? Combined with Sorkins at-times-lecturing teleplay, it felt mannered and formulaic.
CJ on the soapbox - critical issue, if there was one for CJ to get angry about, one can understand why this is it. But she seems to be perpetually under fire these days, and it gets old.
BTW, the actress playing Josh’s love interest is Mary-Louise Parker, lately of NY theatre a lot (“Proof” which won a Tony, I believe) and of Fried Green Tomatoes…
Man, CJ was being a Supreme Bitch in this episode. I understand and sympathize with her position, but screwing up Toby’s meeting with the vets just to try to make a point was way uncool.
And you don’t tell your boss to shove it up his ass.
Other than that I thought this episode was fairly typical; not outstanding, but certainly better than everything else on television.
I personally thought CJ was way out of line. She’s the Press Secretary, not a policy maker. Her objections should have been about the public perception angle, not her personal feelings.
I also would expect someone who gets that high up in politics to not be as naive. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
Well, I thought that this was the point of the episode. No? CJ spent the entire episode arguing about the Women’s rights thing and the Mad Cow thing and was visibly shaken and angry at a point shortly before her briefing.
Her briefing through which she calmly and professionally did her job perfectly without a hint of inappropriate emotion.
I don’t think that Toby is CJ’s boss, but I could be wrong - different department of sorts. Regardless, I think that going into that meeting was over the line. Relatedly, at the very end, was Toby signing “I’m sorry” to CJ? I don’t know ASL, but that’s my guess.
I too have a crush on Josh’s crush. That water balloon was hilarious, as was the look on Josh’s face when he realized what it meant.
Also, does anyone think that Charlie was out of line? His comment after Toby was looking to get the wheelchair fixed to the president was a little overcritical, IMO. I’d get frustrated in his position as well, but that’s the job description - to deal with the president’s idiosyncracies (I just mangled that word, didn’t I?).
However, I thought the episode was great - it was much more “season 2” in nature. Also, Donna is still hot, and she’s getting to show her intelligence even more. I wonder if she’s aware that she’s the future Mrs. Munch. I’m sure she’ll be delighted.
It’s funny, because right before Charlie commented I said, “Uh, Bartlet didn’t solve anything just now. WTF?” Charlie then pointed it out.
I think Charlie was right on target. Sometimes when people go to the Pres, he doesn’t help at all, he just spouts some stuff off about the Civil War, or the Romans, or how to baste a turkey. If I was Charlie, I’d be frustrated too.
Grr. I had to tape the episode because certain people in my dorm, for some unfathomable reason, would rather watch Felicity, and the tape ended up all staticky.
Anyway - the last two episodes both felt really off to me (understandable, as I believe they were the first two written and filmed after “Isaac & Ishmael”), but this finally felt like a real West Wing episode. So whatever problems I have, I’m happy with it because of that.
ShibbOleth, I thought of that thread too.
This was an awful lot less subtle than I’ve come to expect from TWW. Very convenient how the prostitution issue and the arms deal with Qumar were going on at the same time, eh? “And It’s Surely To Their Credit” (for anyone who doesn’t remember titles, AISTTC = Ainsley’s first day on the job) was all about women too, but in a much more understated way. Heck, just go back to “War Crimes” a couple weeks ago to see how this show handles themes intertwining through multiple subplots at its best.
Bartlet reminds me very much of my favorite high school history teacher. Heh.
pepperlandgirl, I’m not sure if your question was serious, but Sam’s position is Deputy Director of Communications, so he’s Toby’s second-in-command. And, yes, there is a slow and deliberate plot to alienate Sam, starting late last season - first Toby made major changes to a speech Sam wrote without telling Sam, a few episodes later Sam found out his father had been having an affair for the last 20 years, then he became the last of the senior staff to find out about Bartlet’s MS…so I was actually happy to see him getting ignored and blown off in this ep, if only because it reassured me that they’re still paying attention to this storyline. I expect an episode where Sam reaches his breaking point and blows up at the President or something later this season.
Yay for Donna getting to make a valid point with Josh! And C.J. for winning the staff over with an excellent argument on the mad cow thing, and doing a great job keeping her emotions in check during the press conference.
Charlie was pretty mouthy in this episode, probably unrealisticly so - but I was overjoyed to see someone finally call Bartlet on how self-absorbed he’s been lately. The President used to be my favorite character but I’ve been increasingly annoyed with him this season, so this helped reassure me that it’s deliberate and they really are going somewhere with it. Did anyone else notice, though, that Charlie doesn’t even bother to stand when the President enters the room anymore? I guess he’s got permisson, since he’s around the President so much, but still - I think the familiarity with which the staff speak to the President often is easier to take if they stick more to this kind of ceremonial show of respect.
Guess I’m in the minority here, but I HATED Amy. And I hated her from her first scene, so it has nothing to do with the fact that I’m a fan of both Donna and Joey, really. Her voice, her perkiness, her whole manner were annoying and rather jarring on a show like this (I think I’d have found her easier to take on Sports Night). Her calling Josh “Special J” was dumb, and the water balloon scene was cheesy. Blech.
Toby’s position is Director of Communications - anyone know if the Press Secretary would fall under his jurisdiction? And, by the way, I loved Toby throughout this episode. That hand-over-heart gesture during C.J.'s press conference was just adorable - he really is very sweet sometimes.
I would assume since the Press Secretary communicates to the press then it would be the director of communication’s job to oversee that. The fact that on this show the Press secretary happens to be a major character doesn’t change that.
Perhaps Charlie is moving into Mrs. Landingham’s role as the President’s conscience. She likely would have told the President that he needed to do something and not just spout off.
But we can’t make direct comparisons between the Bartlet White House and the Bush White House on who reports to whom. Dee Dee Myers, who is a technical advisor on the show and a former press secretary, has stated that she never knew as much as CJ and it’s likely that Ari Fleischer is probably not as well-briefed as CJ.
Although CJ is much better looking that Ari Fleischer in my opinion.
I thought it was very insensitive of her. Josh hears a loud noise right beside him, then feels liquid on his clothing. Poor man probably thought he was getting shot again.
king of spain, I hated Amy, too. Well, I thought she was very cute at first, but the way she jumbles all her words together and has those really hard “R’s” just drove me up the wall. I couldn’t stand to hear her talk. We need more scenes of Donna and Ainsley… together.
I thought CJ was acting out of character, too. She has her principles, but she clearly understands her role as the administration’s mouthpiece. And have they ever told us who that Nancy woman is, anyway? I’m guessing National Security Adviser, but I’ve never heard anyone say for certain.
And are we just left to assume that the Mad Cow case turns out to be negative? There was no “next week” preview, which probably means no new episodes until perhaps January, and that means they’re probably dropping that as a plotline.
Actually, I’ve been kind of disappointed with this sweeps session for WW. I’m finally starting to warm up to Bruno and his two cronies. They’re all well-played, shrewd but thoughtful campaign experts. Yet we saw none of them this week, with the New Hampshire primary less than 2 months away? But this November was pretty much absent of any major plot developments. Perhaps some subtle character development, but you can’t spend a whole sweeps month on something like that, I think.
I am not a big fan of the whole hiding the President’s MS plotline, but I would like to see more of (dammit, I forgot his name as I was typing), the attorney who is representing Mrs. Bartlett. Big hairy guy, he was in A Time to Kill and that Lake movie about the giant crocodile. I like Mrs. Bartlett, and I also like the fact that she stands up to him.
I, for one, don’t want to see Josh and Donna. Anytime there is a substantial romantic relationship in a show like this, the relationship blows the whole dynamic between the characters (Moonlighting, Cheers). I like the fact that she is growing as an individual and standing up for herself. I think a relationship with Josh would screw that up.
This page at whitehouse.gov seems to imply that the real-life Office of Communcations and Office of the Press Secretary are entirely separate, so C.J. wouldn’t be in Toby’s chain of command. It’s not entirely clear, though, and BobT’s right that we can’t necessarily assume that things work the same way in the Bartlet White House as they do in the real world…so I don’t know.
