Wetback, how offensive was this useage?

Great Debates
1

Local newpaper article.

Links the newstory of a local conservative radio afternoon talk show host who referred to fraudulent voting by illegal mexican immigrants and called them wetbacks.
What sort of sanctions should he recieve?

Here is a blog that I agree with.

"*Mark Belling, a radio talk show host in Milwaukee, is in some hot water for using the term “wetback” on the air. The Latino community is in an uproar and the Milwaukee paper has taken him to task in this editorial. They say:

Simply, the term “wetback” should never exit any radio host’s lips, so offensive is it. It’s denigrating to Mexicans and Mexican-Americans and does nothing to help people understand the complexity of immigration issues. It paints with a vile broad brush.
I’m not going to defend Mark Belling. I listen to his show occasionally. He’s generally abrasive and his political analysis is too often off base (but his horse racing picks are outstanding).

I do, however want to criticize the Editorial Board for their stance. First, the term “wetback” does not refer to all Mexicans and does not refer to ANY Mexican-Americans. It specifically refers to Mexicans who are illegally in the U.S. Since they are here illegally, they are not, by definition, Mexican-Americans. Mexicans who remain on their side of the Rio Grande are also exempt from the slur. It is an offensive term, but let’s be clear as to whom it applies.

Second, the Perpetually Offended have struck again and the Editorial Board has jumped on the bandwagon. Belling was just exercising his 1st Amendment right to be a jerk. So what? I’m not saying that the editors don’t have the right to gripe. I just question why they would waste an editorial on such an inane subject. A radio guy in Milwaukee Wisconsin said “wetback” on the air. Big deal. If you don’t like it, then don’t listen. *"

The editorial he referrs to.

"*Longtime Milwaukee radio talker Mark Belling, trying very hard to fan fears of fraud at the polls, resorted over the air last week to a racial slur. It was a vile, hurtful one to a large segment of this community. He said, “wetback.”

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His exact words: “You watch the voter turnout on the near south side, heavily Hispanic, and compare it to the voter turnout in any other election, and you’re going to see every wetback and every other non-citizen out there voting.”

In an interview this week with Journal Sentinel TV and radio columnist Tim Cuprisin, broadcast live over his WISN-AM show, Belling apologized.

But his apology - couched as it was in such sarcasm - was simply not believable. And members of the Latino community have accordingly planned a protest outside the station at 3 p.m. Friday - at the start of Belling’s show.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, 15 out of 20 of the talk show host’s callers thought he shouldn’t have issued the apology at all. Belling responded: “I should not have said the term. I should have used a different mean term.” If nothing else, this, along with the protest, should prompt Belling’s bosses to ponder whether his “apology” was enough.

Hate-mongering and demonization, of course, are talk-radio staples. Civil discourse has, unfortunately, rarely been.

Simply, the term “wetback” should never exit any radio host’s lips, so offensive is it. It’s denigrating to Mexicans and Mexican-Americans and does nothing to help people understand the complexity of immigration issues. It paints with a vile broad brush.

Gaining popularity by appealing to the worst in human nature is too easy and always unworthy. Reminding those who would use such terms as this is always worthy.*"

What side do you fall on and what do you think should happen to the man?
Is the Latino community overreacting?

I say he should recieve a two week suspension to soothe the masses.
The Latino communtiy nees to chill. On the local news the other night they showed a protest group gathering and one of the protestors had Marks image on a human shaped pinata hanging from a stick with a string around his neck. Worse?

2

Its pretty offensive for hispanics of Mexican decent. I know several people (some in my family) who would take this as a pretty deadly insult…most of them natural born US citizens of hispanic decent. Why? Because its insulting to the natural born community to be thought of as just off the boat mostly (think of the terms ‘hick’ or ‘hillbilly’ as comparable).

That said, its not (quite) as bad as calling a black a ‘niger’. The hispanic community is pretty sensative right now…and its been rising for a few years now. For instance, there are several of my family who are offended by ‘hispanic’…they prefer ‘latino’ these days. I think it comes from the PERCEPTION that we are the marginalized minority, not getting the same spot light as the blacks. Personally I think people need to get a thicker skin. Certainly if said radio jock had directly called me a ‘wetback’ (I came to America dry :wink: ) I would have had to do something relatively drastic on his head, and I think he probably SHOULD be punished. But over all I agree…the hispanic community (and the black community for that matter) need to chill out some.

-XT

3

a little bump for the Monday crowd.

4

I disagree, I think it’s everybit as offensive as nigger, as it a direct reference to illegals out in fields picking crops. It’s meant as a dismissive, and an effort to dehumanize.

5

Well, YMMV Stuffy. I myself never found it as offensive as ‘nigger’, which I think is pretty dehumanizing. Wetback is an offensive term, don’t get me wrong…but I don’t think its in the same league as ‘nigger’. I don’t think most hispanics (not that I speak for all of them) consider the terms equal either.

Like I said, many of my US born bretheren would certainly be offended, but more in the way if you called someone a ‘hick’. The illegals would certainly also be offended at the derogatory nature, no doubt…but again, I don’t think they would consider it the same level as ‘nigger’ would be to a black. Personally, the term I was always offended by growing up in the SouthWest was ‘spic’ when used in a certain tone. Luckily its not used that much anymore…at least no one has called ME that for a while anyway.

-XT

6

The term “nigger” was used as a direct insult to any and all black persons at the height of it’s useage. It was used to denigrate and it meant that the person being referenced was a lower class human and usually a slave. An African American would usually hear themselves referred to this throughout their lives.

The term “wetback” is more of a comical term used to describe a Mexican coming over the border voluntarily (as opposed to the slaves who came over under force) and illegaly. Under normal circumstances, you would not be able to direct the insult to just any person of Latin origin without knowing the details of their arrival into the country. Once the person blended into the workplace or gained citizenship the term would normally not apply. I’m not saying that it doesn’t offend or that it shouldn’t offend, but it doesn’t seem to be as offensive as the N word.

7

I don’t agree with the sliding scale of racism in this thread. Just because one could view “wetback” as comical, does that mean that calling African Americans “watermelon-eaters” ok because it’s more comical than “nigger”? Pish tosh.

Looking at Dictionary.com’s definitions:
Used as a disparaging term for a Mexican, especially a laborer who crosses the U.S. border illegally.
OR
Offensive terms for a person of Mexican descent [syn: greaser, taco]

I’ve gotta say that it’s an offensive term and most likely was used in that way. This person is a talk show host and as such, should have a good command of the English language and how to apply it. Especially according to his bio on belling.com

8

it all depends on the usage.

In my opinion, certain words have a ceiling on their offensiveness which varies from person to person as to how close to home it hits them reguarding their personal vunerabilities.

First there is the intenet to offend. Say if a black guy uses the word “nigga” as a greeting like “What up, nigga?” That’s pretty much inoffensive, since there was no intent, and none taken." But if you were to have a bunch of rednecks pass by a group of black guys waiting on the bus and one yelled, “Get a job you f****** nigger” Then that is about as offensive as you can get. Imagine the same situation with Mexicans and wetback. That’s pretty much the same to me, I think.

Being black is something that you can’t change, and if someone makes the offensive statement in a way that shows “being black=bad, worthless, etc.” Then you certainly can see how that would affect them. But being Mexican is much different, because the term wetback, is used to describe Mexicans living in the US who aren’t citizens or who are first generation. If its not true, maybe you care less?

But maybe, xtisme, it is more offensive to first generation immigrants?

What if someone were to call you a nerd? In the most offensive way? If you know it is true and are ashamed, then you will feel really bad. If you know it is true and don’t care it wouldn’t be so bad. If it isn’t true and you don’t think so, and you don’t think it is bad, then there is almost no effect.

What about calling someone cheap? Probably on the level with being called a nerd. That’s another thing that isn’t so bad, and it certainly won’t offend as much, I think.

Overreacting? No, I don’t think so. The viritrol is there, and there is certainly contempt. He attempted to use that word with full force and in the worst way.

If someone tried to insult me like that I’d be pissed too.

9

In my experience, “nigger” and “wetback” are terms which simply do not enter the lexicon of the educated.

In short, they say a lot more about the person saying them than about the person being referred to.

I’m all for people being given a second chance, but color me VERY surprised that Belling hasn’t been fired for this oversight. There’s little room for the uneducated in everyday society – but to continue to give someone this thoughtless a public forum like a radio show is just asking for trouble. And I say this as a former radio professional.

10

Well, I’m a first generation immigrant…I came to America from Mexico when I was around 4. We came to the country legally (thats why I said my back was dry coming in), as my mother was an American citizen who was living in Mexico when she met my dad.

Again, I’m not trying to say the term is inoffensive…its certainly offensive. And I’m not saying that this radio jock should be cut any slack for his derogatory usage of it…he shouldn’t. The term is definitely offensive…but its SELECTIVELY offensive, i.e. not all hispanics, or even all Mexicans, would take the same degree of offense. However ALL blacks would (rightfully IMO) take offense to someone using ‘nigger’ in a derogatory way. That was my only point about the two terms.

I have only my own experiences to go on here, and I don’t speak for some hispanic group mind thing (and as I already said, the term ‘hispanic’ is offensive to some, but not me…its what I grew up with)…but the term just isn’t the same degree of offensiveness as ‘nigger’ is to blacks. Having grown up in several ghetto communities throughout the South West and including LA in California I can tell you…calling a hispanic a ‘wetback’ MIGHT get you knocked out if done in a derogatory way…or it might get you jeered at as a stupid fucking gringo puta. Calling a black a ‘nigger’ in a derogatory was is definitely fighting words.

-XT

11

In 1954, the federal government began a program, dubbed “Operation Wetback” that deported over 1 million Mexican immigrants back to their home country. When my Latino students read about this event in The American Pageant (p. 916), they are both amused and offended.

12

Picking crops? I always thought it referred to their swimming across the river to get into the US. But I always considered the term more descriptive than derogatory: “Does that guy working on your crew have a green card?”

“No, he’s a wetback.” Said without emotion, this is how I have usually heard it. It seems like it would be offensive in a mild way, like someone characterizing you to a third person, behind your back. Disparaging? Maybe a little bit, but only because we’re talking about a set of people who have broken laws (laws which I disagree with, BTW).

13

Offense is selective to audience, speaker, and how said.

How many times have I heard northern New Mexican hispanics refer to Mexicans as ‘mojados’? More times than I can count.

How many times have heard West Texas hispanics complain about wetbacks? A couple of dozen.

How many times have heard South Texas hispanics make jokes (in reference to a stupid or silly behaviour) about other South Texas hispanics being a “wetback”, “Mexican”, or a “having a green card”? A few dozen.

I used the term lately in the company of South Texan hispanics when a woman talking about moving back to Missouri talked about an employer there asking for her green card (kind of alluding to the ignorance there). I said something like the ‘dumbass thought you were a wetback’. No one was offended.

14

The host’s use was offensive. But it’s due to the context. And I wouldn’t put it past some of the offended to use the term as well in a joking, matter of fact, or insulting manner.

15

Exactly what I was trying to say. Its sort of like calling someone a ‘hick’.

Exactly.

-XT

16

Belling ended up with a 12 day suspension.

Hannity is on now during his show. I guess the advertisers hit him pretty hard.