What are Democrats doing to contain Green Party spoiler candidates this time around?

Great Debates
21

Now, see, that’s OK because you’re from California, which always goes Dem…uhm…never mind. Having fun with the Governator?

Molly Ivin’s latest, although she’s not a Green, has a couple of pertinent phrases:

Priceless. And I agree about the money-grubbing and the only ones who are using their teeth on the issues are the bottom four candidates. But the alternative, as I see it, is NOT a Green President, it’s a repeat of 2000 if the race is close. As for me, I’m going Kerry or Lieberman if either dude is on the ballot by the time it gets to me :frowning:

22

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And why do you think that happened?

Because Grey Davis gave off the impression of being a political slimeball who didn’t stand for a single thing. Grey Davis was grooming himself for presidency, and thus he felt it important to establish a record that would play well to moderate voters.

He did repugnent things and passed repugnant legislation in order to appeal to the center. For example, he across the board refused to grant parole to people regardless of circumstances in to look “tough on crime”.

I’m not okay with that.

The Democrats are never going to win another election if they keep scrambling for the center. The Republican have the center right now. The Dems arn’t going to steal that away by parroting the Republicans. All they can do is stick to their guns and hope it won’t stay this way forever. Right now they just come off as pale weak Republicans, and thats just not a winning stance.

Come on folks! Abandoning your principles isn’t a good way to get anything! I’m not going to reward that. And I’m not going to accept being taken for granted. If my party won’t represent my needs, I’ll find a new one. And I have.

23

Isn’t that kind of like the hens voting for the fox because the Chicken Party candidate didn’t deliver on the “scratch three times a day” plank in his last term?

Geez, people. It’s real life! Principle be damned…if you don’t vote for the lesser evil, the greater evil will win. Your vote is thrown away until you understand that the Not-Evil isn’t even on the odds sheet.

24

[whiny sing-song voice]
“We’re gonna win the election, we’re gonna win the election…”
[/whiny sing-song voice]

See you in November. Hee hee hee.

Regards,
Shodan

25

Al Gore, green?! I’m waiting for the canned laughter to begin.

A little bit about Al Gore’s environmental record.

26

Its also not nice to punish people just to teach them your lesson!
vanilla, formerly Green.

27

We know that now .I still recall Flymasters thread back then.
I’m still sorry.
Heck, I would vote for Larry Flynt over GWB.

28

I still don’t get the point of the Green Party. They are pushing the Democrats to the right (because they are teaching the Dems that they cannot count on leftists, they are too picky and not worth going after when it could lose them the much more important center). And they have 0 chance of ever winning national elections, because the US public simply doesn’t agree with their platform. They have some fantasy about how it’s just a matter of access and getting the word out. The word is out. People are just not willing to vote for skyhigh taxes, no military to speak of, and socialism.

29

Since you seem to have missed it, I’ll say it again. Greens aren’t responsible for what Republicans do. We didn’t vote for Bush. We don’t have any congressional representation so it wasn’t Green quislings that helped Bush pass his agenda.

Bullying us, condescending to us, ignoring our desires… these things aren’t going to make us support you. If you want our support then earn it. If you won’t work with us then don’t blame us if you fail. The Dems don’t have to run a presidential candidate either. Y’all could ask your boy to drop out and support our candidate. Or you could nominate someone we can all get behind. If you choose not to then don’t come crying to us for not abandoning our principles when you are unwilling to compromise.

30

Given that the politics of 2sense and even sven are complete anathema to me, I merely wish to register my enthusiastic support for their decision to remain completely irrelevant.

31

Who are the smartest Dem pols out there? The Clintons.

Where is Hillary positioning herself? Smack-dab in the middle.

The Dems will be back in the game as soon as they rid themselves of the Green fringe the way the Pubs dumped the Pat Buchanan right.

32

I’m unaware of any 3rd party having successfully sent a message to either of the mainstream parties in modern times. Perot won something like 19% of the popular vote, but I don’t see any changes either the Dems or Pubs made in response to that.

Having said that, I’d like to encourage all the left leaning folks on this board to vote Green. It’ll make you feel real good inside.:slight_smile:

33

Whaddayamean, “dumped”? Looks to me like the Republicans have been taken over by the Pat Buchanan right…

34

You don’t know who Buchanan is, do you?

35

Buchanan is gone from the GOP, but the Buchanan Right remains.

2sense: “Greens aren’t responsible for what Republicans do. We didn’t vote for Bush.” Your votes influenced the outcome that way, and you had been told clearly what the effect would be, but you did it anyway. The result is an administration that is much further from what you want. Yes, you do bear some responsibility for the consequences of choosing ideological purity over the real world.

36

As for containing Green Party spoiler candidates, I suggest inviting them to a Tupperware party and then sealing them in giant Tupperware containers until December 2004. That oughtta contain them.

Hmmm, might work for Pubbies too. THAT oughtta narrow the field!

And as one who voted Dem in 2000, I agree with the Greens – it’s up to the Democratic Party to win Green votes if they want them, the Greens have no responsibility to vote Dem.

37

No. You’re responsible for having put them in the position to do what they do.

But what they were going to do was pretty predictable.

As such, you’re a bunch of enablers.

That’s awfully self-centered of you.

I’ve got my own political agenda. Neither party is close to supporting it. But it’s not about me, and I realize that. It’s about this country, about which we’re singing about.

And if you want to be responsible, rather than be children (yup, I’m condescending; whatcha gonna do about it?), you might ask yourself what’s best for the country?? And then do it.

From the Green perspective, that should be pretty damned obvious. The environmental rapaciousness of the GOP (remember, you’re Greens: the environment is your big issue), now with precious little Democratic restraint on it, is in plain view.

Yes, the GOP is actually doing it. They’re the primary evil.

But the Greens could have kept them from being able to do it, knowing damned well what their anti-environmental goals were. They didn’t. They share responsibility.

38

I love the way the far left (as opposed to the center-left) lumps the current administration into the far-right. I mean, the center-left does, too; but I understand that that’s mostly just polticking. The far-left really seems to believe that W. and his crowd are truly far-right.

I’ve met some far-rightists, both in Texas and here in Missouri. They make George W. and his current crowd look like, oh, I dunno, Mondale-Ferarro?

I guess it’s just a matter of perspective.

The (far) left has to wake up to the fact that mainstream America, while perhaps sympathetic to some (far) left issues on principle, are unwilling to commit themselves totally to their cause(s)

Their are just some issues, some aspect of governmental function, that I simply wouldn’t trust the (far) left to anymore than I’d trust a pack of dogs let loose in a butcher shop.

BTW: same goes for the (far) right.

So it comes down to picking centerist candidates who we feel who will do well within the boundaries of their own inherent idealogical constraints, while doing the least amount of damage when confronted with something outside the realm of their idealogical platforms.

All-in-all, I say it’s 6-to-5 and pick 'em.

And I found this priceless: (from Blalron

Yea, verily, millyuns and millyuns of evil doers cast their lots; and yea, verily, millyuns and millyuns bore the mark of Cain for electing the idiot-king who led his chosen people into the wilderness, to be set upon and feasted upon by the lions, the tigers, the bears, the cats, the dogs, the chickens, the dogs, the cows, the fruit flies,…

:ahem; skip forward a bit Brother Maynard:

Yeah, millions of Americans are guilty, Guilty, GUILTY of having differnet political views than you, Blalron.

We’re absolutely horribe, 'orrible people! Shame on us!

Wicked, wicked people! Oh! The shame!

Is it just me, or does anyone else, anywhere on this message board, find the left’s idealogical intensity and intolernace as equally disquieting as the right’s religious fervor and intolerance?

One slight nit-pick: (from even sven)

For the left, the above should have the phrase “…stick to their **anti-**guns…” substituted for maximum accuracy. :stuck_out_tongue:

39

Ideologuism is an ugly thing no matter who has it. But you asked about disquieting effect, and yes, it’s just you. The far left has little opportunity to even make itself be heard, much less have a real effect on the real world. The far right is in power. That’s obviously more disquieting.

40

The far right is not in power. The center-right is in power, and they’re trying to placate the far right, which is necessary for them to have the votes for re-election. Ex-Tank is correct. GWB is not far right. He’s far too pragmatic to be far right (just as Clinton was far too pragmatic to be far left). The neo-cons are moderately far right socially, but center-left fiscally…notice that the concept of “smaller government” hasn’t even been paid lipservice during Dubya’s admin. Tax-cuts, yes. Less spending…ehh.

As each generation’s political mainstream merges with history, the understanding of centrist politics changes. And the presidency is never very far off of that. Even Reagan was center-right, for the 80s. We consider Nixon far right because we think of the Love Generation as being dominant then…they weren’t. The Love Generation were teenagers and young adults who usually didn’t vote because they opted out of the “ratrace, man”. Nixon’s “silent majority” were more responsible for determining the country’s political center than the Flower Children could ever be. And when the Flower Children did become the arbiters of centerness, Clinton was elected.

The presidential candidate has to be elected by ALL the people. This makes it imperative that the candidate run to the center. You can get extremist Representatives elected, no problem, because their districts are small. It’s harder with Senators, because they’re elected statewide. And it’s nearly impossible with Presidents, because getting a majority of all voting Americans to agree with an extremist ideologue has astronomical odds against.