In the eyes of some people, Green Party Candidate Raph Nader cost Al Gore the Presidential election. Can they do anything to prevent this from happening this time around? Should they do anything?
Don’t need to. Who’s going to vote for Nader again, knowing what the effect was last time?
Firmly grasp the skull of a Nader voter and point it at a photo of GWB. Repeat as needed.
If this fails, toss the skull onto the pile with the others.
As a Green I resent the implication that we are to blame for the Bush nightmare. He’s Republican. Point the finger at them. If the Dems nominate an acceptable leftist like Braun or Kucinich we will support them. If instead the Democratic Party picks a moderate or conservative candidate to appeal to those voters then fuck 'em. If they don’t care enough to seek our support then they can win without us. Perhaps another four years of Bush’s idiocy is just the thing America needs to wake up to the dangers of conservatism. Maybe by '08 both the voters and the Dems will have learned their lesson.
I voted Green last time around (albeit in MA, where Gore was guranteed a win). Never again.
A Green won’t win any time soon, they’ll just siphon votes from teh moderate and near-left candidates the Dems field.
And I’ll take a moderate over Bush any day of the week and twice on Sundays. If the last few years have taught me anything, it’s that the contention that both parties are essentially the same is a crock. Gore would not have gone to war with Iraq, to name only the most obvious example.
If the Greens want to be anything other than a joke, then they’ll field candidates for Congress and local offices, while endorsing the hell out of the leftmost Democratic candidates, and later the nominee.
From 2sense
I have no dog in this fight, but this is simply too funny to pass up. Does the words ‘dream world’ mean anything to you? If you don’t appeal to the moderate unaligned voters, you are dead. If the Dems tried to put forth one of your dream candidates they would die a dogs death at the poles and we’d get yet another 'Pub in the White House…simple as that. Much as it pains me to admit it, the 'Pubs have played it smart…they have marginalized the more radical element of their own party (causing the Buchanan faction to bolt for greener pastures).
Personally, I think you are right…if the greens appeal to you, you should vote as you like and damn the consequences. After all, while Nader might have cost Gore the election, Perot (who I voted for…lol) certainly gave the election to Clinton over GW’s daddy. C’est la vie…its how it is.
Reguards,
XT
As a lifelong Democrat before I jumped to the Greens I never had any trouble telling the parties apart. The Republicans are totally evil; the Democrats are only half evil. Yes, a lot of people are dead now that wouldn’t be if Gore had been president. I’m sorry for that but its not the fault of the Green Party. Yes, the country is headed swiftly down the tubes now that Bush is president. That doesn’t mean the Gore would have made a good president. He wouldn’t have made things as bad as our Chickenhawk-in-Chief but that doesn’t mean he would have made things better. I want someone to lead us to a better America not just the officeholder that will do the least damage.
Why should leftists line up behind the Democratic nominee no matter how far to the right he is? If we do that then they can take us for granted. No, a better tactic is to hold out until we get acceptable candidates or we might never get them. All my life I have held my nose and voted for Democratic presidential candidates. Never again. If they want my vote they have to earn it.
So far it looks like the Dems are going with Dean and the closer he gets to the Democratic nomination the less acceptable he looks to me. At first I was excited by his campaign. No longer. We already have a president with a secrecy fetish. We don’t need another. Dean should release the “public” papers from his governorship. He should state forthrightly that he won’t cut Medicare. I want fiscal sanity but I’m not voting for someone that will balance the budget by wringing blood from seniors.
Yes, please do vote for Carol Mostly-Fraud. How helpful of you! The phrase “useful idiots” rings a bell. 
Do the words “Read twice then post” mean anything to you? Take them to heart and you might avoid sticking your foot in your mouth. I never suggested that the Democratic Party not seek to appeal to moderates or conservatives. Of course they should. I objected to the Dems appealing to them by picking a moderate or conservative candidate. Bush isn’t moderate and yet he is in the White House. Same for his dad and Reagan and Nixon and so on. You are right, the Repubs aren’t stupid. They pick conservatives that make moderate noises. A leftist Democrat could do the same. Also I think that after 4 more years of Republican misrule one of my dream candidates would win handily against whoever the Repubs send out to be slaughtered.
lol, I knew EXACTLY what you meant 2sense, so no foot in mouth for me…but thanks for looking out for me. 
I was simply responding to your last line because it amused me. If it my humor bit you I appologize…I just found it funny.
Personally, I whole heartedly agree with your second post, and totally respect your stance, as I feel much the same way (though obviously from another part of the political spectrum). I’ll most likely be voting Liberatarian this time around as so far none of the big parties candidates appeal to me.
-XT
Excuse me. Have I directly insulted you? No I haven’t because I understand the rules here.
Besides, I can’t vote for Ms Braun. We have a closed primary here in PA and she isn’t going to be on the ballot come November. But if she were I know of no reason not to support her.
Um, the same morons who were told last time what would happen and decided to vote for Nader anyway, justifying their decision with nice little moralist platitudes like “If Gore couldn’t win by himself then only he’s responsible” or some such? I recall hearing a lot of talk about the whole issue before the election, and the ultra-leftists voted for Nader anyway. Not that I really care either way, as I haven’t decided yet if I’m going to vote for Bush or for a Dem, but I think all the whinging since then by the same people who refused to vote for Gore is a bit silly.
Nader is that Nader isn’t particularly green. His gig is anti-corporatism, not greenism. In policy positions, Gore was far more green than Nader ever wanted to be.
Sure, Nader was more leftest than the other candidates, but Green? Not by a long shot.
Anyone who really votes “green” (as opposed to Green Party) would have voted Gore.
And 2sense. The Green Party is indeed partially at fault for Bushism. They didn’t have to run a presidential candidate. The fact that they did is pure narcissism. They knew (or should of know) up front that they would have no purpose other than to act as spoiler.
Greens have a place in politics, running in races where they have a chance of winning. Right now, and for the forseeable future, they have no business putting up a presidential candidate unless their goal is to harm the environment as much as possible.
I’d be willing to be that the vast majority of Geens understand that now. It’s a shame that they had to do such harm to the country earning their merit badge in unintended consequences.
Oh, and for Nader, electing Bush wasn’t an unintended consequence, He meant to prey on the simplicity and trust of greens to elect Bush. He believes that things have to get worse before they can get better, and so he did his part to make things worse. 
2sense, conservatism has been dominant in politics since 1981. And we’ve enjoyed excellent prosperity since then.
I think there’s one point to this argument that we may be missing… I, myself, a democrat, voted for Nadar because I wanted to send a message to the party. The Democratic Party in 2000 did not have a reasonable platform (or for that matter, a platform at all), clear message, or a strong candidate that would stand up for the party’s principles. The party leadership needed to know that they can’t continue to be wishy-washy and still run the country. I can’t tell yet, but maybe they got the hint.
I dislike the implication in the OP that the Democrats need to “control” anyone.
Dictating to others how to behave is not what the Democratic Party is about, IMO – if it was, they might as well be called Republicans…
I don’t blame the Greens for our current President. I blame the millions of people who voted for George W. Bush. THEY are the ones who should be ashamed of themselves.
If I were a prominent Green wanting to run for national office, I would. I’d run the best campaign I could, appealing to liberals of all stripes, not just the McDonald’s-is-trying-to-take-over-the-world types. I’d get a few celeb endorsements so that the convention (from which I’d appeal to the delegates to accentuate the positive only) would be well-covered by the media.
And here would be my acceptance speech:
“My fellow Greens, I am delighted that I have received the nomination of this fine party. I think we have shown that the left wing has plenty of common sense to go with its idealism. And so here’s a little more: I hereby decline the nomination and withdraw from the race for President. I ask that all of you take the vote you were going to give to me and mark the ballot of (insert white Protestant Dem guy name here). No, Mr. WPDG is not the perfect candidate for us, but we will not deliver the Oval Office to his opponent. Again. Thank you and let’s get cracking on those Congressional seats.”
Never happen, of course, but I would only vote Green if I knew my state was A LANDSLIDE ONE for WPDG. For sure. I’d do the math and check it twice every day.
I’m a leftist.
The democrats have made it pretty clear they have no use for the left. Instead they’d rather spend their time vote-grubbing for the middle and trying desperately not to take a stand on anything that might imply they are the dreaded “liberals”.
As such, they are not my party.
I vote green.