I have a close friend who is a (somewhat) observant Muslim. As an atheist, I would like to better armed for the arguments I have with her on religion. One line of argument that I think is effective* when arguing with a particular brand of Christian is to point out the absurd and offensive material in the Bible(slavery, homosexuality etc.)
I was looking for similar stuff in the Quran, and turn to the Straight Dope for answers that are not driven by ignorance, as too much of the internet seems to be on this issue.
*Let’s not fight the premise by arguing about whether it is effective or not please
Scritpural literalism is not a profitable area of discussion.
The big three religions have uniformly horrible material right through them.
If anyone says they follow their religious book to the letter then you can guarantee they are an evil person regardless of their preferred brand.
Thankfully most people are not evil and you can consider the religious texts as more of an ethical and moral Rorsach test, we understand a lot about someone by looking at what they choose to discard and accept.
So, assuming you’ll find distastefull if not downright nasty passages then the most profitable area of (polite) discussion with your friend would be to ask them
“which bits of the book do you accept as literally true and which are not, and why?”
“How do you choose which parts to follow and which to discard, and what authority do you have to do that”
Then just let the discussion go from there.
So, you think this tactic has worked for you how? You believe you won these arguments using this strategy? How and where are these wins recorded? Did your Christian “friends” denounce their faith after hearing your profound logic and clarity?
Let me guess, you like impressing your friends with your profundity.
What is it about the Koran and Islam that a person can’t ask a question about one of those things here without the predictable: But the Bible does it, too!
Men are the managers of women, because of the advantage Allah has granted some of them over others, and by virtue of their spending out of their wealth. So righteous women are obedient, care-taking in the absence [of their husbands] of what Allah has enjoined [them] to guard. As for those [wives] whose misconduct you fear, [first] advise them, and [if ineffective] keep away from them in the bed, and [as the last resort] beat them. Then if they obey you, do not seek any course [of action] against them. Indeed Allah is all-exalted, all-great.
Naturally, since all is flux, those things in anything which are offensive to various groups today, will be the common norms again in future phases. Culture is not a one-way street
Just as the present beliefs of western civilization will be abhorrent to future generations, whether they are, say, more sexist or less, or more racist or less. It’s important to craft your own ethics and not rely on the mere crowd, which is fashionable.
Lots of right wingers are very anti-muslim. Therefore left wingers can show their off leftiness by being as much the opposite as possible. Signalling behavior. And it’s hilarious. But I’m sure that was probably more of a rhetorical question.
And if I were asking whether it was or not, you’d have a point.
Why make this response? I thought the whole point of this board was to pool knowledge.
I only know one observant Christian, but her life isn’t getting fucked up because of her religion, so I never need to have a religion argument with her. And I do think obvious examples of ugliness in the cornerstone of your religion are useful for undermining it.
This site is a pretty good example of why I turned to the dope instead of the internet at large.
I don’t see any particular reason to assist you in pointing out the absurd and offensive material in the Koran to a “close friend”. Do your own research.
for the minority that already has the sensation of being under unfair attack, this falls more likely into a version of the Mansplaining…
The liklihood of you being convincing to any believing muslim is near zero. the liklihood of confirming the sensation of prejudice and having the opposite effect is near 100.
