I’m not in recovery or anything, just curious.
How long does it take to move from one step to the next?
Hi, I’m Opengrave and I’m a recovering alcoholic.
STEP ONE - We admitted we were powerless over alcohol – that our lives had become unmanageable.
STEP TWO - Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
STEP THREE - Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
STEP FOUR - MADE A SEARCHING AND FEARLESS MORAL INVENTORY OF OURSELVES.
STEP FIVE - ADMITTED TO GOD, TO OURSELVES, AND TO ANOTHER HUMAN BEING THE EXACT NATURE OF OUR WRONGS.
STEP SIX - WERE ENTIRELY READY TO HAVE GOD REMOVE ALL THESE DEFECTS OF CHARACTER.
STEP SEVEN - HUMBLY ASKED HIM TO REMOVE OUR SHORTCOMINGS.
STEP EIGHT - Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
STEP NINE - Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
STEP TEN - Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
STEP ELEVEN - Sought though prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for the knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
STEP TWELVE - Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
(sorry for the fonts - it was a cut and paste)
‘moving’ from one step to another depends on the individual but they are all related in a way. Just because you have done #12 doesn’t mean you don’t ever do #1. Right now I’m starting my fourth step but already practice some of the other steps.
I almost started an ‘ask the recovering alcoholic’ thread - I’d be glad to explain anything I can. I’m no expert, I’m just trying to stamp out ignorance.
From Alcohlics Anonymous’ online pamphlet “44 Questions: Questions and Answers About Alcoholics Anonymous”
http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/english/E_Pamphlets/P-2_d1.htm
What are the ‘Twelve Steps’?
The “Twelve Steps” are the core of the A.A. program of personal recovery from alcoholism. They are not abstract theories; they are based on the trial-and-error experience of early members of A.A. They describe the attitudes and activities that these early members believe were important in helping them to achieve sobriety. Acceptance of the “Twelve Steps” is not mandatory in any sense.
Experience suggests, however, that members who make an earnest effort to follow these Steps and to apply them in daily living seem to get far more out of A.A. than do those members who seem to regard the Steps casually. It has been said that it is virtually impossible to follow all the Steps literally, day in and day out. While this may be true, in the sense that the Twelve Steps represent an approach to living that is totally new for most alcoholics, many A.A. members feel that the Steps are a practical necessity if they are to maintain their sobriety.
Here is the text of the Twelve Steps, which first appeared in Alcoholics Anonymous, the A.A. book of experience:
-
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.
-
Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
-
Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
-
Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
-
Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
-
Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
-
Humbly asked Him to remove our short-comings.
-
Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
-
Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
-
Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
-
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
-
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Hi there OpenGrave and thanks for being, well, open about your alcoholism and answering questions. Here’s mine: what if you are an atheist? I noticed a lot of the steps involve asking for God’s help.
So what if you’re an alcoholic Buddhist or an atheist? I’ve wondered ever since I found out that God was mixed up in the whole 12 step thing if it was mandatory to at least give Him lip service during the recovery process.
And now that I think about it, if it is mandatory, isn’t it unConstitutional for a court to force someone to go to AA (church & state, etc.)?
To expand a bit on the question of how long it takes to go from one step to the next: each person does the steps at his or her own pace. In AA, it is recommended that someone new to the program get a sponsor, a person who has been in recovery for a while, to help them with the steps. Working with a sponsor, you can take each step when you are ready for it.
While it is strongly suggested that you do the steps in order, some people have been able to go back and forth a bit. I have been sober for 10 years now, and I have done steps 4-9 in bits and pieces, dealing with each situation as the time became right.
As far as the spiritual aspects of the program, while it is true that the higher power is usually referred to as “God,” there really is no dogma about what or how to believe. It is important to have a belief in some sort of higher power in order for the program to work, but I have known people whose HP was the universe or another similar concept. There are also other recovery programs that work differently from AA.
My personal feeling about this is mixed. I have known people who were court-ordered into AA and ended up sober. Alcoholics usually have to see some serious consequences to their drinking before they are ready to stop, and for some people, having a judge order them into treatment is sufficient. Or once they’re inside the door, they begin to see what life sober is like and decide they want it.
However, I also think it’s a bit of a violation of AA’s tradition of “Attraction, not promotion,” IOW, people should come to the program of their own free will and not because it was pushed on them by a court or another AA member. IANAL, but I think the legal aspects are murky at best. AA is not a church or religious organization, but the spiritual nature of the program could be construed as such.
AA directs the participant to look toward a ‘Higher Power,’ not god. A Higher Power can be what is traditionally called God and as such is compatible with most of the organized world’s religions. Atheist participants can elect a different form of Higher Power; this can be anything from a force of nature to looking within yourself for a force that motivates you. Some teens even look toward rock groups!
AA does not accept donations from anyone other than its membership and has had trouble dealing with court mandated attendance. You’ve never heard a spokesperson from AA make an ‘official statement,’ endorse candidates, etc. Several years ago however they did issue a statement that as it is an anonymous organization, public record of mandated attendance breaks the anonymity tradition and can undermine the intent of the program.
Coming from a family of drunks, I can say that those who have discontinued drinking have used a variety of methods from quitting cold turkey to expensive therapy. The most effective (to me) are those who go to AA.
and
The religious nature of AA has caused controversy (and lawsuits) in cases where AA attendance is mandated by a court sentence.
From the June 1999 Church & State bulletin from Americans United for Separation of Church and State:
Secular alternatives to AA have been created; see, for example, Secular Organizations for Sobriety.
Well, since the OP was answered and we’ve veered off into the constitutionality of court decisions, I always wondered if a court could compel an Atheist or Satanist to place their hands on a Bible before giving sworn testimony. REALLY wondering about the ‘Satanist’ part, I’d find that hilarious.
<hijack>
How ironic, placing your hand on The Book of Lies, and swearing to tell the truth. Sheesh. :rolleyes: But, i DID actually do this once because i had to go to court. I played along with it, just because i was in BIG trouble (over some really trumped up bullshit that, were it not TX, they could have never convicted me of i might add). As far as placing my hand on The Book of Lies, it could have been the latest version of Reader’s Digest for all i cared. It meant nothing to me, just a silly little game really. The biggest issue here was to NOT make a scene and get everyone (ie. the judge and the district attorney) all mad. That’d be great to have those assholes want me that much more. So while i may think that religion is stupid, and generally speaking people that fall for it are gullible and or weak, i’m not insensitive to the fact that these stupid backwater hicks outnumbered me and could’ve fucked me over pretty good. Anyone who goes into a criminal type situation and boldly declares their love for the prince of darkness, or hatred of god, is just asking for trouble. <BIG HIJACK> And yes i know that law enforcement people are supposed to be unbiased, but i have known MANY cops and even have a couple in my family. Don’t you just love having a cop refer to thier ASP/nightstick/whatever as a “nigger knocker”? And how many times have i heard even my own relatives delight in the fact that they gave “some stupid fucking nigger/chink/beaner/whatever” a ticket/a hard time/some jail time. Fucking bastards. And for those of you out there who are in law enforcement and DO possess compassion and intelligence (rare qualities indeed for cops), I SALUTE YOU. THANK YOU.
</hijack>
deep breath
Did that answer your question Askia? 
-Dani
I’m an atheist. I’ll swear to tell the truth. I can’t remember the exact wording of the the oath I swore for jury duty, but it was something on the order of “I affirm that I will” tell the truth or do my duty as a juror or whatever. The court can’t compel me to swear to a god that I don’t believe in. Cecil’s done a column on this, but I’m a bit tired, and I can’t remember if it’s online or not. I know it’s in one of his books.
[moderator hat ON]
Dani, watch your language in this forum. You wanna cuss like that, save it for the Pit.
[moderator hat OFF]
As it happens, I live in Texas, and yeah, sometimes one has to consider whether or not one wishes to be known as an atheist. I don’t put a Darwin fish on my car (it invites keys) but I do tell the proselytizers that knock on my door that I’m an atheist, and to leave me alone.
The question of AA and atheists and constitutionality has been done to death at some earlier point on. I can’t seem to pop anything up on search though. Sorry.
More specific on what Lynn said, Dani, if you don’t have any other point than to rant, do not post in this forum. General Questions consumers want and deserve better. These very same consumers go to the Pit for that.
So will you.
As noted above, AA has been controversial because its 12 steps mention “God” or a “Higher Power”. Some folks who have tried that program also note that it tends to be Christian-centric; though the 12 steps don’t actually put a name to the higher power, I’m told that many members assume that everyone’s higher power is Jesus.
Because of these problems, there exist similar programs that are specifically designed to eliminate those problems. They use modified versions of the 12 steps.
I recently heard a Wiccan priestess give a talk on a substance abuse program that she runs. IIRC, she described the difference as follows: If you know you’re an addict, you realize that you have given power over your life to a substance-- say, alcohol. In an ordinary 12-step program, you take the power out of that bottle and you hand it to a higher power; then you ask for help and hope to get it. But in the pagan program, you take the power back into yourself. You learn to once again make your own decisions, and take control of your own life, instead of handing control over to “the ghost in the sky” [her words].
A quick web search has turned up this article, which is by a different person, but seems to be the sort of thing she was talking about: http://members.aol.com/JehanaS/recovery.html