What are UFOs if they're NOT alien spacecraft?

[Cryptoterestrial]

@Andy_L

meant to mention yesterday that the motive for hiding evidence about NTI is unclear to me. It seems like a great way to get more power (“we need more surveillance to deal with NTI”) and more money (“tax revenue is needed to deal with the alien menace”), and to distract from current scandals (“Forget Watergate - it’s unimportant compared to the UFO issue”). But instead by your suggestion, the government has declined these opportunities.

emphasis added. they could hardly take advantage of UFOs given that the topic remains just barely in the Overton window, if at all. I attribute that to deliberate misinformation but also to the existence of independent hoaxers.

as for the motive to keep them secret, given the timespan involve, never mind my outsider status, hard to say.

but the ostensible reason has had to do with not exposing the public to ontological shock. particularly in terms of the religious consequences, IMO. a more selfish reason has to do with not incurring backlash and for corporations to maintain monopolies on NHI-based technology.

although, I do find it strange that not only the US but other governments have kept quiet. perhaps they actually know pretty much nothing.

at any rate, I think that the documentary The Age of Disclosure goes into it a bit. I have seen the documentary but I don’t remember whether or not it odes. you also might want to go through r/ufos on Reddit where they’ve talked about “why keep it secret?” a number of times.

answering your second question, you’d have to do two things. one, give a natural explanation for why people have vivid waking dreams lasting hours. no, sleep paralysis doe snot account for it. also, I do not mean cases of addictions recovered under hypnosis. because suggestibility, duh.
seance, you’d have to show me records of the US purposefully fooling the public (with technology that I don’t think exists, at least didn’t it, say the 1970s). although I do think that mundane advanced technology does account for some percentage of the cases.

I can, for sure, imagine that the US government knows far less than claimed and have built up the disclosure movement for its purposes. physical phenomena and the entity encounters… well, that would take a lot of disproving.

@GIGObuster

You still miss it, Sleep paralysis and vivid dreams are not the same.

not vivid dreams. vivivd waking dreams. I only used “dreams” for convenience. this has to do with semantics, anyway. you know what I meant.

[Czarcasm]

Your ability to turn any evidence against your theories into evidence that somehow support your theories lead me to ask this very important question: What kind of solid evidence would you accept as proof that your theories are probably wrong? Are your theories disprovable at all?

[GIGObuster]

@Cryptoterestrial

not vivid dreams. vivivd waking dreams. I only used “dreams” for convenience. this has to do with semantics, anyway. you know what I meant.

Not really, when I looked at research, Vivid dreams also included vivid waking dreams, And research points at vitamin intake changes, lack of sleep or some drugs as the main reason, not extra or crypto terrestrials.

Seems that you try, and fail, to make things fit to where your bias goes.

[Crafter_Man]

@Czarcasm

Basically, to the best of our knowledge, UFOs are…not.

Correct.

IMO, there’s a very low probability we will find life - within the next few hundred years, perhaps few thousand years - outside of Earth.

[Czarcasm]

The best part of this answer is that if solid evidence is presented I am willing and able to change my mind. Until then, there are innumerable questions out there to deal with and my lifetime is limited.

[Cryptoterestrial]

@Czarcasm

I think it was the other way around. The military supported the idea of “flying saucers from outer space” to divert others from looking inward instead of outward.

a real possibility. at the same time, the UFO phenomena itself exists.

@Crafter_Man

IMO, there’s a very low probability we will find life - within the next few hundred years, perhaps few thousand years - outside of Earth.

oh, a Residents fan! but on the actual topic of this thread: as I have stated, yes, I believe in UFOs as a paranormal phenomenon. no, an extraterrestrial origin for them seems to me one of less plausible explanations. hence my username.

[Cryptoterestrial]

@GIGObuster

And research points at vitamin intake changes, lack of sleep or some drugs as the main reason, not extra or crypto terrestrials.

I have experienced hallucinations from lack of sleep and nothing like entity encounters took place. in one instance, some red lettering on a blue background jiggled like jelly. I noticed this right away as a hallucination, as most people would. on the second occasion, I heard a voice speaking to me for half an hour. classic schizophrenia. it wore off.

these waking dreams also often involve more than one person at the same time.

so, the make the conventional explanations work, you have to think:

• sustained hallucination involving multiple senses

• convincing enough for a person really to believe it totally

• not only a hallucination but focussed on particular imagery and themes (the media can’t count for all of it, particularly not for cases from, say, the 1910s)

• sometimes witnessed by more than one person

[Cryptoterestrial]

@Czarcasm

The best part of this answer is that if solid evidence is presented I am willing and able to change my mind. Until then, there are innumerable questions out there to deal with and my lifetime is limited.

I think I’ve explained that. at this point, paperwork suggesting an extensive hoax using high tech. (t would have to involve high tech. actually in many cases anachronistically advanced tech.

[GIGObuster]

AFAIK the preponderance of reported (yep, no hard evidence remains really) shared dreams are about common desires or goals.

Not Crypto creatures.

https://medium.com/@mrinaljyotichoudhury/shared-dreams-are-our-minds-connected-beyond-sleep-f7abe5f3d502

What it suggests: When people are exposed to large‐scale stressors, many minds produce similar dream content — even without direct sharing of the dream. It’s an example of overlapping symbolic structure rather than direct mutual dreams.

[Czarcasm]

And I think I have said that, to date, solid evidence is just about non-existent. It is kind of hard to grasp at the ghost of a straw.

[crowmanyclouds]

@Cryptoterestrial

I believe in UFOs as a paranormal phenomenon.

And your evidence for UFOs paranormal phenomenon is?

[Andy_L]

@Cryptoterestrial

emphasis added. they could hardly take advantage of UFOs given that the topic remains just barely in the Overton window, if at all. I attribute that to deliberate misinformation but also to the existence of independent hoaxers.

You argue that the government can’t use the existence of UFOs as a convenient way to gain power and distract from scandals because UFOs are outside the Overton window, but you also argue that the government are among the people pushing UFOs outside the Overton window. This seems contradictory or incompetent on the part of the government, which is otherwise very consistent and competent at covering up the UFO evidence.

[Czarcasm]

That is not an explanation. That is using an undefined and unexplained pseudoscience to “solve” another undefined and unexplained pseudoscience.

[Cryptoterestrial]

@GIGObuster

AFAIK the preponderance of reported (yep, no hard evidence remains really) shared dreams are about common desires or goals.

Not Crypto creatures.

I did not mean the kind of dreams that you have when asleep in bed. I mean the sort of experience that happened to Travis Walton. note that I do not mean material apparently elicited while under hypnosis. I think that in that instance that they make up the “memories”.

[Cryptoterestrial]

@crowmanyclouds

And your evidence for UFOs paranormal phenomenon is?

when I describe UFOs as paranormal I mean that no good conventional explanation exists for them. thus, paranormal. I have attempted to prove that throughout the thread, of course. if you want to see what I regard as good proof, go back through the thread.

[Cryptoterestrial]

@Andy_L

You argue that the government can’t use the existence of UFOs as a convenient way to gain power and distract from scandals because UFOs are outside the Overton window, but you also argue that the government are among the people pushing UFOs outside the Overton window. This seems contradictory or incompetent on the part of the government, which is otherwise very consistent and competent at covering up the UFO evidence.

over the course of nine decades or so, many things can happen.

[crowmanyclouds]

Having already read the thread,
So you have no evidence for paranormal phenomenon either.

[Cryptoterestrial]

@crowmanyclouds

So you have no evidence for paranormal phenomenon either.

“paranormal phenomena” does not mean one thing. it means many things, including UFOs.

[Andy_L]

Fair enough. The same applies to the desire to keep a secret.

[crowmanyclouds]

It means nothing because there is no evidence for any paranormal ‘’‘’‘phenomenon’‘’‘’.