C’mon, everyone, the war is in the past! We need to move on! There may have been some dubious claims made, but there’s no need to hold anyone accountable for them. Can’t we all just get along?
[kicks Scylla in the head]
Scylla: “Ow! What the *!@#& was that for?”
Scylla, that kick to the head is all in the past! Water under the bridge, and all that. You should stop your hateful attempts at character-assassination and join us in moving on with the discussion.
My real beef with the centri part is that it was just a part, and two, they would need thousands of complete centrifuges.
I assumed, as a matter of course taht Hussein had banned weapons. I’m quite surprised that none have turned up. I first began to really doubtthat there were any of these weapons when the admin’s emphasis changed from weapons to weapon programs.
From the git-go I felt that we were getting hosed because every criteria that Iraq met was also met more strongly by other nations. To me, that meant that there was an unstated reason that seperated Iraq from the likes of Iran, Pakistan, No Korea etc.
Then, there were the repeated “not-lies” that gave birth to Hussein bin Laden. My native distrust fior govt was propelled to the forefront.
I find it commendable as well taht Scylla has decided to reconsider. I contact many who’re not to that point yet. They’ve blithely moved on to trying to justify the invasion on the grounds of Hussein being a bad guy. When I point out that some Americans feel taht US foreign policy should be based on American interests rather than Iraqi interests, I get the ‘Liberal-America-hater-wants-us-to-fail’ schtick.
As someone pointed out to Shodan, conservatism is not defined by support for this invasion of Iraq. If it were, then Pat Buchanan would be a liberal.
Anyway, kudos to Scylla if he’s saying what I think he’s saying.
SimonX:
IIRC it’s “parts” not “part” and these are supposedly the unreconstructable or difficult to acquire parts so that a centrifuge could be rebuilt easily with these key parts.
You are quite correct though that one centrifuge is pretty much useless.
As I’ve said, it is not conclusive, it is not a smoking gun, it is not justification, but it’s also not unimportant or dismissable. It’s a relevant piece of positive evidence.
Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention about the Saddam as deciever with regard to WMD hypothesis is that it does a good job of explaining why Hussein would give the go ahead to his commanders to use chemical weapons on invading Americans as he supposedly did when they had no such weapons.
I can think of alternate reasons why he might do that other than as a campaign of bluffing (i.e. it might be a last ditch effort to stall the invasion) but it also fits the deceiver hypothesis.
Bear in mind that I am not asserting this hypothesis as fact, simply arguing against its outright dismissal.
What I’d like is for every citizen of this country to sit down and think really hard about the root cause of this debacle. Me, I’ve got it down to too much power in the Executive branch. That problem needs desperately to be solved. Who the person votes for next year is far less important than realizing that this is the problem, and working towards getting it solved somehow.
Also, what TVeblen said.
And congrats, Scylla.
To strictly answer the OP: Cabernet. Gallo will do; I’m too much of a wino to be particular.
I still don’t doubt that Hussein was not above lying and deceiving the way that the ocean’s not above the sky.
The lack of an imminent threat part is being dealt with by reminding us that it was a pre-emptive strike against an emerging threat before it fully materialized. (re rebuttal to Kennedy’s purely opportunistic attacks. The schmuck shouldn’t’ve voted for it if he thought it was such a sham.) The problem with that one is that the imminent threat of Qaeda has yet to be eliminated. So, it seems of doubtful wisdom to go after an immaterial(ized) threat with both barrels while another threat, proven and imminent, is put on the back burner, (relatively). The whole thing says to me, “unstated reasons.”
I suppose that the ‘re-make the ME’ thing is taken seriously in the Admin. Which is a shame as it appears to be naively executed.
Many of those, (that I have contact with), who’ve been apologists for the admin’s tack on this divisive affair have yet to even speculate on what conditions would call for a re-evaluation of their position.
I voted for GWB.
There’s a headline at the top of the drudge report claiming that Kuwait has just foiled an attempt to smuggle chemical weapons and bio-warheads out of Iraq.
I saw that earlier…somehow it just seems way too convenient, and mind you, it’s entirely my cynical opinion, based on no certain facts as of yet.
The article states there’s no details of suspects, possible accomplices, no info from where they came from, where they were going, and info about how they were found and acquired. Also, they don’t know when they’ll be handed over.
It feels like a Jedi mind trick. “There is no CIA leak, nothing to see here, move along. Oh look! Over there! WMDs!!”
Second of all, why on earth would they be handed over to the FBI? Isn’t FBI a domestic force? Wouldn’t they be handed over to the CIA, or the DOD? I have no idea, it just doesn’t sound right.
Be interesting to see what European country they were allegedly headed for. The more cynical bits of me are nastily saying it’ll end up being blamed on France.
I saw that earlier…somehow it just seems way too convenient, and mind you, it’s entirely my cynical opinion, based on no certain facts as of yet.
The article states there’s no details of suspects, possible accomplices, no info from where they came from, where they were going, and info about how they were found and acquired. Also, they don’t know when they’ll be handed over.
It feels like a Jedi mind trick. “There is no CIA leak, nothing to see here, move along. Oh look! Over there! WMDs!!”
Second of all, why on earth would they be handed over to the FBI? Isn’t FBI a domestic force? Wouldn’t they be handed over to the CIA, or the DOD? I have no idea, it just doesn’t sound right.
Be interesting to see what European country they were allegedly headed for. The more cynical bits of me are nastily saying it’ll end up being blamed on France.
Sure there is. First off the FBI wouldn’t be involved.
So some dumbass in Iraq has a bunch of WMDs and a plan to fuck up those European infidels, and he takes a look around, and decides to smuggle them thru Kuwait? The only neighboring country that actually likes America? There’s Jordan, Iran and Saudi Arabia, none of which are particularly scary places for a terrorist. Then there’s Syria, which is sitting on the Mediterranean Sea, just a hop-skip-jump from Europe. But none of those were good enough, they had to go with Kuwait!? To quote Jon Stewart: "Wuuuuuuuuuh!?"
If this shit is for real those guys’ve gotta be dumbest thing since sliced bread.
Say, I’ve got an idea where we’ll find the terrorists: standing in the middle of a field, staring up at a thunderstorm, mouths agape, slowly drowning…
Also: what they said.
Isn’t Kuwait home to a large number of American troops at the moment? Maybe the goal was closer than Europe.
“chemical weapons and biological warheads” These are relatively vague categories. I wonder what will come of it.
9 a. The U.S. needs to pour much more money into rebuilding Iraq not just the piddly $20.3 billion Congress is debating about.
We need to give 'till it hurts over here. This is the only way I can see the to stem some of the hatred/mistrust of Iraqi people towards the U.S.
Plusses: By handing over the power to the U.N. and footing the bill, we will regain some of the world’s goodwill and possibly a new ally. Through our own sacrifices we’ll be reminded that future wars should not be undertaken without a thorough understanding of all the costs involved. It’s the right thing to do.
Minuses: Our economy will suffer, Americans will suffer- but hey, I read somewhere that good comes from suffering, right?
This one gets my vote. I think it may very well may be the final nail in the coffin of our nation, but so long as it at least helps to stop the cycle of death…
What do you do about pissed people with guns and bombs? Not much you can do. Just try not to piss them off in the first place.
Scylla I have not found one legitimate news source with that story- looks like you have been hoaxed. No offense, but Drudge is the last step above the Weekly World News.
Look for yourself:
Even more bad news for you and Shodan, Kay’s report is now in:
And even worse news- the current poll numbers:
Just watch them drop further tomorrow when word of Kay’s report gets out.
Kay hasn’t found anything, and he seems to me very credible in the way he’s presented his asessment of the evidence, neither over nor underplaying his conclusions.
He seems factual rather than political.
I hope that report will be released shortly.
Kay hasn’t found anything, and he seems to me very credible in the way he’s presented his asessment of the evidence, neither over nor underplaying his conclusions.
He seems factual rather than political.
I hope that report will be released shortly.
Kay did ask for 9 more months. July 2004.