Not at all. I never said it was right for some Bible-thumping douche-nozzle to condemn you to hell or even to preach to you unless, and this is important, you specifically asked them to do so. I also don’t want Amway salespeople, telemarketers, political pollsters, or vegans (who can be just as, if not more annoying, than born again Christians) to bother me unless I agree to the conversation or speechifying.
Actually this can be applied to any group that is so adamantly entrenched in their view that they want to shove it done everyone else’s throats. Gluten free, PX90, anti-vaccination, truthers, birthers, home-schoolers, homeopathics, crystal healers, astrologists, ancient alien believers, whatever. Some people are so positive they are right and everyone else is wrong that they will beat people over the head with their convictions, quoting facts and statistics they have cherry picked to fulfill whatever they are saying. They don’t give a damn that the target of their diatribe has tuned them out and their eyes have glazed over. They are on their soap box, verbally assaulting the object of their derision, telling them how blind they are to the truth they are proclaiming and asking them when the scales will fall from their eyes so they can see the light and accept the truth.
So, to sum up, your beef really isn’t so much with atheists per se, than it is with annoying assholes in general. Because, that whole long list you shared is comprised of all sorts of idiotic people of every stripe. To single atheists out for particular derision seems a bit misguided in my opinion. Also, if the above stated is accurate, I can get on board with that. Presumptuous know-it-alls in any subject irritate the fuck out of me.
Yes, because the people posting to the most recent threads are most likely to still be here. It is kind of tough to have a light-hearted debate about what is the best brand of athletic shoelaces with a poster who you remember from this thread as the guy who ::blushed:: and naughtily giggled as he admitted that he thought that the country would be better off if all the Blacks just went back to Africa.
Maybe I should clarify: Yes, in general I hate those annoying assholes and others of their ilk. On this board in particular, though, I can’t stand the atheists who jump into a religious thread for the express purpose of threadshitting. Rather than providing a constructive answer to whatever is being discussed, the Extreme Atheists take great pleasure in pointing out what kinds of idiots still believe in a supreme being in this wonderful age of enlightenment and destroy the thread with their ridicule.
As I’ve said, my son is an atheist. He and I can discuss anything, including religion and the possibility of there being some kind of creator. He has debated his convictions with his friends who are active members in their churches. But I raised him to be polite and respectful. He doesn’t demean these people or insult them. He doesn’t belittle their beliefs or tell them that they are crazy or mentally deficient for going to church. And, if things get heated, he knows to back down and leave it as “agree to disagree”. Why start a holy war?
I post on another board that has an atheist sub-forum, and some of those people are militant to the point where they homeschool their kids because they don’t want the children exposed to religion, or question their kids’ friends about their religious beliefs and do not allow them to play with kids whose families practice any religion, but Christianity in particular.
Which is a shame. Being so closed minded. Are they afraid that their kids might come home with a question of faith? Maybe, the friends might invite the kid to some church picnic? Or:eek: be handed a Bible?
I don’t see this as any different than the people who only listen to Christian music, homeschool, read only Christian literature, refuse any TV as secular and every last bit of their things typically denote that they are Christians. I’m assuming in both scenarios it’s because either camp finds the other harmful.
It’s sad on any front to ignore knowledge. But yes, for those that are “militant,” they don’t want their children to be, as they see it, brainwashed. Be it by making them question the belief system they were raised with, exposed to mores they find repulsive or given a book they’ve seen used as the basis for some of the most heinous acts ever dreamt up by man. So, it doesn’t take much to envision what ‘the other side’ feels.
Now, granted, I live in the bible belt, but I know SO MANY families that are like this, only in reverse (they are Christian and won’t let their kids be exposed to anything “of the world”). I think it’s pretty fucked up in both instances. I guess crazy comes in all flavors.
Which is demonstrably untrue anyway; the logistics alone would be a nightmare. At bare minimum, we’d need a sizable skeleton crew to stay behind and help out during the transition period, and good luck filling those positions. Best to not even try, is my opinion— however unpopular that may be. Go ahead, folks: flame away.
I’m sure this will become a horrible tangent but what do the more extreme atheists do when their kids are studying classic literature? Dante’s Inferno, Paradise Lost, even Moby Dick require some understanding of the Bible. Would they truly understand the meaning and feelings of John Donne’s Batter my heart, three-person’d God or myriads of other poems? By shielding and “protecting” their kids from religions in general and Christianity in particular they are ultimately hurting them. Will they tell the kids not to listen to some of the most beautiful pieces by Handel, Brahms or Bach? Would they say they shouldn’t look upon the works of Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, countless others whose works can be found in museums around the world, let alone in the churches and cathedrals? Will their studies of world history have to ignore the importance of religion in the development of the world, both for good and bad?
Last summer our family went to Switzerland. We visited the Church of St. Leodegar in Lucerne. The art was stunning, the architecture was incredible and I loved learning the history of the church. My 19 year old atheist son was outraged at how ostentatious the church was and the waste of resources, going on and on about the gold used in the reliquaries that could be better used to help those in need. While I can appreciate and understand what he was talking about and agree the Catholic Church should do more, I talked with him about not just looking at the building as an extension of a religious organization but as a historical heritage, a museum of the arts.
A few days later we went to the St. Pierre Cathedral in Geneva where you can see John Calvin’s chair. The contrast is amazing. None of the artwork, starkness throughout. Instead of being awed by the structure the visitor was more reflective. We were also able to explore the excavations under the church that go back to the times of the Roman Empire. My son was more appreciative of the lack of ornamentation in the cathedral and wasn’t as offended by it. We were able to talk about the history of the Protestant Reformation and how it caused a rethinking not only of how they would worship but where and why.
I’m so proud of my son that he can appreciate the works and the history, knowing that without the patronage of the Catholic Church we wouldn’t have so many of our masterpieces. While he thinks that organized religion is a scam and the idea of any kind of supreme being or supernatural force is ridiculous, he can look at what has been created in the name of “God” and marvel at it’s beauty.
Public schools and colleges do teach the Bible as a literary reference, whatever makes you think it isn’t as well-known as the other books you mentioned? Dante, Milton, and Melville are presented to students as inspired by the Bible, and even those of us with a public education are quite aware that the modern concept of Hell comes courtesy those authors rather than the Bible itself. Every passing student of Western art and literature knows the Bible as a famous, influential literary work.
Of course we know that the owners and creators of those works claim they were created in the name of God, but we are all aware (including Christians) that the sort of hoarding and amassing of gold, jewels, and art was a shelter for the ruling party. Who could possibly fantasize that the terrific wealth and art showcased in those cathedrals was providing any service or testimony for the flock?
No, we’d have other, equally stunning art and architecture in its place - Christianity is not a necessary condition for great art - Leonardo did the Mona Lisa as well as the Last Supper. There would always be people with money looking to patronize artists, it just so happened that Western Europe went through a period where the Church had lots of money and power. If the Catholic Church didn’t exist, we’d have other, secular art in place of what we did get.
I think if we’re going to have executions, we should do it and not worry about how messy it is. Bring back beheadings. Or drop a one ton cube onto someone? Or have them hold a grenade in their mouth.
[ul]
[li]Anyone trying to convince you that this era or that era “in music” was better than another era has no idea what they are talking about. There are beautiful songs and albums recorded every year and there is pure shit recorded every year too. Being too lazy to look for hidden gems or too stupid to appreciate that the music you hear on the radio is the tiniest fraction of all the music that is out there for you to hear is no excuse.[/li][li]I believe school shootings, rapes, murders, kidnappings, and pretty much every other horrible, human-caused thing you heard about on the news is simply a part of living on Earth, and that when you force millions of people to live together in cities, these kinds of things are simply going to happen every so often. It doesn’t mean they aren’t sad, and it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be trying to solve these problems - but it does mean that these problems are not shocking tragedies.[/li][li]The penalties for unsafe driving should be very strict: the license giving you permission to zoom around town in 4,000lbs of metal and gasoline and obligating you to do so safely should carry far harsher penalties for those caught drinking, texting, etc. In some cases I would support people losing their license for a year for being caught texting while driving.[/li][li]I can’t generalize and say all women, but certainly of all the women I’ve known going through school and now into my early 20s, the majority were far more attractive physically at 16/17/18 than they are now at 22/23/24. There are plenty of possible explanations for this, but it’s just something I’ve noticed in my own social circle.[/li][li]You should be given a small but reasonable financial incentive to get a vasectomy/get your tubes tied/etc. What this incentive should be is for people smarter than me to figure out, but I basically picture it as some sort of reasonable financial reward for taking steps to ensure you are not contributing to the overpopulation of the planet.[/li][li]Pumped-Up Kicks is an alright song.[/li][li]The Olympics is a bunch of horse shit. If you want to promote teamwork and spirit and togetherness, how about we stop all this silly country vs. country shit and make all events formed of random teams? An American, a Frenchman, an Italian and a Russia vs. a Canadian, a German, an Englishman and a Belgian in the 4-man relay would promote the kind of ideals the Olympics pretends it promotes a hell of a lot more effectively than it currently does…[/li][li]But of course, the idea of countries at all in this day and age is ridiculous. Tradition and heritage, national flags and different languages have been made obsolete by the Internet and the sooner we stop giving a shit where we’re from the better.[/li][li]You should have to study for and pass exams about an animal before you can have it as a pet. You must be able to demonstrate, in short, that you have even the slightest fuck of a clue what you are doing before you are allowed to become a parent to any animal. Cat, rat, dog, lizard, snake, doesn’t matter: you should have to prove you understand the psychology of that animal before you are allowed to own it.[/li][/ul]
Sjeesh. Build a better straw man next time. Third generation Atheist here and I know more about the bible, history and western culture then most Christians I meet.
And I certainly know more about all those other rich non-Christian cultures then most Christians I meet. Have you ever experienced the deep spiritual beauty of Keltic and Viking cultures? Hindu? Islam? South-American? Romans and pre-classical? Cro-Magnon sjamanistic cuture? Etruscan? Oriental?
Jeesh. If you actually believe you have to be a Christian to truly appreciate and be moved by human art and literature, you’ve fallen prey to some of the more insidious Christian propaganda.
take great pleasure in pointing out what kinds of idiots still believe in a supreme being in this wonderful age of enlightenment and destroy the thread with their ridicule.