I was once informed in no uncertain terms that Jesus is a Protestant. Having never thought of Jesus as belonging to any denomination at all, except that he was Jewish in mortal life, I was fairly stunned. However, now you know.
Busty, that’s not exactly accurate, as far as the LDS are concerned. We do not believe that anyone who isn’t LDS is going to hell. What we do believe is a bit complicated, but essentially, a) everyone gets a chance to learn and to receive salvation, whether in this life or the next, and b) we are judged according to the desires of our hearts. That is, if we want to be close to God (in heaven), we will be able to do that. If being further away is more comfortable, that’s OK too. ‘Hell’ as in lakes of fire and burning forever is not really in our scheme of things. Hope that clears things up for you, but I’m trying to be very succinct here.
I would have told the informant that when he asked his replicator for coffee, it gave him shoe polish.
genie- I was solely speaking for what I was taught growing up in the Southern Baptist church. I admittedly have no idea what is taught in the LDS church, as well as most other Christian churches (except for Methodist, since my family switched about 1/2way through my childhood). What I was taught was mostly your a) point (without the ‘next life’ stuff) and if they choose not to receive that salvation, whether they be 3 years old or 80 years old, THEN they’ll go to hell. And I was taught ‘hellfire and brimstone.’ I think that’s what distinguishes Southern Baptists from most other denominations!
Oh, just clearing up a point, Busty. No harm done. There’s plenty of misinformation out there about us–I’m used to it. 
Lib, nice comeback, but no way could I have said anything. The situation was not a random ‘Have you been saved?’ on the street–it was my host mother in a year-long stay abroad in HS. I learned to keep my mouth shut when she came out with amazing(ly inaccurate) statements; life was a lot better that way. Believe me.
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I think that these religions are taken very seriously by its follower.
I see them as misled and I am a Christian. I have never heard of a Christian Hell before. Or were you talking about earth? 
As far as I know, Christians don’t go to Hell.
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NO! With the exception of the Jews.
First of all, we are talking about a very specific comment that he made – namely, that about having “many mansions.” So let’s not muddle the issue.
Second, you have yet to demonstrate that this comment has anything to do with “other religions,” whatever those religions may be. That is why I asked about context. Is there anything – anything whatsoever – in that context which suggests that Jesus was talking about other religions?
And third, it is not necessary to establish someone’s religion in order to determine what his views on other faiths are. For example, if someone says “All other religions are bunk,” then that comment speaks for itself – regardless of what that person’s denomination may be.
Once again, I ask: Is there anything in the context of your quote which suggests that Jesus was talking about other religions? Please note that we do not need to establish what Jesus’ own religious views were in order to answer that question.
The Bible, which most Christians consider to be the infalliable word of God (and those who say they are Christian and yet don’t consider it the word of God seriously make me wonder), makes it very clear that nobody gets to heaven except through Jesus.
There are good parts to every religion but as a Christian, I do not believe they lead to heaven.
Hey, you asked.
I’d like to hear what context you believe Jesus used these two words. How can you say Lib is using it in a wrong context if you don’t state your understanding of how it they were used?
When Jesus said that nobody comes to the Father except by him, he may well (IMO) have been stating that he was providing the means for the salvation of man (i.e. Jesus’ sacrifice will deal with your original sin, whether you want that or not, leaving you accountable for your own actions only)
It’s my favorite chapter in the Bible, John 14.
The context is Jesus saying that He will return to the Father to prepare the mansions for our arrival, and in the interim, send His Holy Spirit to dwell within the hearts of people. Certain people, that is. Namely, people who obey His commandment. His commandment is that we love one another.
“Whoever hears my command and obeys it, he is the one who loves me. My Father will love he who loves me, and I too will love him, and will show myself to him.” There is no demarcation of the “whoever” by religion.
He rephrased this over and over and over again (e.g., “If you love me, you will obey my command,”) always generalizing the nominative toward people who love. He never phrased it in any way that might indicate that those who call themselves this or that, who join this or that group, who declare allegiance to X religion or Y religion, would join Him in the mansions — rather, it was those who obey the commandment to love.
They, and He, and God are one and the same.
“On that day,” Jesus says, “you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.” You can even draw this as a Venn diagram. It will be one merged circle.
Rephrasing yet again, He says, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our mansion with him.” That word, mansion, is from the Greek root, [symbol]monh[/symbol], and is used twice in the Bible: once in the verse I quoted earlier about the many mansions, and once here. It means also dwelling, or abode, and is a metaphor of God the Holy Spirit as He indwells those who hold his commandment dear.
Jesus, in His whole ministry, never even used the word “religion” (Greek root, [symbol]qrhskeia[/symbol]). He wasn’t even talking about religion; He was talking about love. He routinely showed disdain for all the trappings of religion, from its holier-than-thou politicians to its tedious and morally meaningless rituals.
“A new commandment I give to you,” Jesus said, “that you love one another as I have loved you.”
Whoever obeys this commandment has a mansion prepared for him, and in fact already lives there in his heart. He is one with Jesus and with the Father. They dwell in one another because they all have made the same moral decision: to love.
It isn’t that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life because He compares this way or that way to religious figures who might be in competition with Him. It isn’t Who He is by virtue of his physical birth, but WHAT He is by virtue of His spiritual nature. And that’s the same thing that ANYBODY is who loves.
“I tell you the truth,” He said, “anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.”
So, I am not saying at all that Jesus is talking about other religions. In fact, the opposite. I am saying that Jesus is rendering religion moot and irrelevant. He proclaimed no religion as superior over another (it was a pagan — the Roman Centurion — whom He identified as having the greatest faith in all of Israel!), and professed for Himself no religion of His own. He was not the embodiment of any religion; He was the emodiment of God’s Own Love.
“Peace I leave with you,” He said. “My peace I give you.” It isn’t about religion. It’s about love. There are many mansions that are reserved, not based on religion, but based on love.
Searching for God within religion is like searching for the living among the dead. God does not divide by religion, but by whether we love. There will be many who call Him by names like “Allah” and “Jesus” and “Jehovah”, and He tell them to go away, that He never knew them, simply because they do not love. And there will be many who call Him by names like “Mother Earth” and “Osiris” and even “Figment of Imagination”, and He will embrace them because they already have embraced the essence of What He is. They love.
Jesus did not bring with Him the burden of jumping through hoops and learning the secret handshake. “Take my yoke upon you,” He said, “for I am meek and gentle in spirit, and you will find rest. My burden is light.”
The notion that God is the mascot for a club that calls itself “Christianity” is obscene. He is the I AM. He is The Love Everlasting. He is the one Who dines with prostitutes and makes His home among the homeless and outcast. Religion is the business of men who seek to wield power over other men. The business of God is love.
The Catholic view (and I think the view of many other denominations) is that the sacrifice of Christ is essential to salvation. Without that sacrifice, no-one could be saved.
It does not follow that a personal faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for individual salvation. Anyone who, knowing that the sacrifice of Christ was necessary for salvation, still refused to accept Christ could not be saved. However this must be a very small group of people. To be <i>told</i> by somebody that the sacrifice of Christ was necessary for salvation is not the same as <i>knowing</i> that it is so. There are many who have heard the Christian message but not accepted it; few if any of those have rejected it even though they believe it its truth. The great majority who have simply not accepted the message are not thereby condemned.
Libertarian, I think you’re stretching here. Consider the following statement, for example.
One could just as easily argue that this demarcation is implicit in the requirement of hearing his command and obeying it. In other words, one could argue that “whoever” refers to practitioners of his faith – that is, those who obey his commands (as opposed to, say, merely intending to obey). If anything, this passage depicts a negative attitude toward some, if not all, of the “other” religions.
Hence, I think it would be foolish to regard the “many mansions” as referring to practitioners of other religions. That strikes me as eisegisis – reading meaning into the text – rather than careful exegesis, or extracting meaning from the text.
I could state it; however, Lib is the one who claimed that this refers to other religions. Since he’s the one who initiated the claim, it’s only fair to ask him to defend his claim, and to provide the context. Is that not so?
The Christian group I belonged to believed ONLY those who followed Christ were going to heaven. And, not only that, only those who followed Christ thru the bible exactly like we did went to heaven. Sorry Baptists, Methodists, and especially Catholics. It was our responsibility to reach out and show others the truth.
Then I realized something: A god who would eternally torture people for so petty an offense is hardly worth worshipping.
No, JT, it isn’t so. I’m afraid you have me confused with someone else. Review the sequence of discussion, and tell me who is fixated on “religion”. Not me, my friend.
The “whoever” from Jesus refers to whom He said it refers to: those who obey His command to love. Who is stretching, the man who takes Him at His word, or the man who makes His words mean something else?
Show me where Jesus mentions religion, and I’ll reconsider.
To clarify UDS’s post with more, what we’re talking about here is a rejection of Good/God itself by people who truly believe that such is required for salvation.
In other words, doing evil while knowing the consequences for yourself and others.
No, but he did say “through me”. Just as foolish as you’re quoted statement for the same reasons. Equally foolish: absolute belief that Jesus is the only way to get to a pleasant afterlife.
DaLovin’ Dj
“Through me” means “through love”, DJ. It’s not that it’s His party, and He claims it’s the best one — it’s that He IS The Party, and if you go, you can’t avoid Him. No man is required to love, but all who do will be with Him.
Lib, replace the word “me”, “him”, “he”, and “his” with “the southern baptists”. Here’s how it looks:
It’s not that it’s the southern baptist’s party, and the southern baptists claim it’s the best one — it’s that the southern baptists ARE The Party, and if you go, you can’t avoid them. No man is required to love, but all who do will be with the Southern Baptists.
Now it sounds stupid (can I get an amen?). Also sounds stupid with Jesus as the reference. Or Buddha. Or Zeus. Many religious folks will insist that they are on the only correct path in this respect. Pretty foolish behaivior as the earlier joke illustrates. One can only hope that if there is a creator who wants to give us a paradise after we die, that he/she/it provides these conceited dogmatic types with big padded rooms so they can maintain their delusions of being “the chosen people” ala that classic joke.
DaLovin’ Dj